Sherwood Hampton

I know these experiences can be quite common, but I observed a rather obnoxious immigration official at Minneapolis/St Paul on Tuesday (15th June), and I was wondering if other people would have felt the same if they observed it.

I arrived on a Delta flight at about 1700 on Tuesday. At immigration, the guy immediately in front of me in the queue walked up to the counter and was met by what seemed at first to be a pleasant immigration official. I thought it was nice as he would be serving me next. I could hear the coversation quite clearly. The guy he was serving was maybe in his early twenties and from his accent appeared to be Eastern European. He was also pleasant and was enjoying some banter with the immigration officer, although he did appear somewhat nervous as I'm sure a lot of people do when entering the United States.

After about one minute it became apparent that he hadn't been given the correct forms by the crew onboard, and when the immigration officer told him this, he sighed and murmured "oh Jesus." At this point the immigration officer, whilst not shouting, suddenly changed his attitude and became quite intimidating to the young lad. Now it was two days ago so I cannot remember the exact phrases, but I was shocked by the attitude of the immigration officer who basically talked to him like a piece of trash and said that if he "cursed like that at him again he would be dealt with in severe terms". The young guy looked shocked and didn't really understand what he'd done wrong. The immigration officer kept telling him that "he's in the United States now" and that saying "Jesus" in that manner was swearing and that he shouldn't swear at an immigration officer. I'm really paraphrasing but I was stood their, in shock at first, but then I was quite seething at the dressing down he gave to the young lad. As an observer, no way was the attitude of the guy wrong. He just stood there becoming more and more worried until in the end he said "sorry" rather sheepishly.

After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.

violist

No big surprise. Airport "officials," whether INS or TSA or whatever, probably
didn't go into the profession to aid the huddled masses yearning to breathe
freer but rather because they either didn't have what it takes to make it
elsewhere or wanted to exercise power in a somewhat more socially
acceptable way than kicking their cat.

N965VJ

Geez.

ajax

The way that some people, especially power-tripping hourly-wagers, behave towards guests in their country is shameful.

Was the man a US citizen? I'm assuming not. I'm hoping not. If so, the CBP agent literally could not have kept him out of the US, no matter what.

It's a shame you didn't have time to have a word with the supervisor.

thegeneral

"periods" are your friend. Also, please provide what evidence you have to make such a statement. I'm guessing you're a constant complainer in the security forum.

You were so fuming that you did nothing? Sure. It must have been horrible. So bad that you did nothing and then posted on the internet about it. Perhaps if it was worse you'd change your facebook status.

Had he said, oh ****, you wouldn't have even been able to type it here. He swore and the officer felt it was not appropriate. He said such. He got the guy to fill out the proper forms and let him in. The guy in line wasn't complaining about it. Why did you get upset about it? It was uttered quietly, but you heard it? Sure.

obscure2k

Moving thread to TS/S Forum.
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator

tcm

very uncivilised

Firebug4

There are usually three sides to a story. Your side, the other guy’s side, and the truth, the truth is usually in the middle of the other two sides. We only have your version of the story. Assuming that your version is accurate the officer has two problems that need to be corrected. The first would be the manner that the inspection was conducted again assuming your version is accurate which we really don't know.

The second is that the officer allowed you to be way to close to the booth during the inspection. For you to have heard the passenger sigh and murmur "oh Jesus.", you were entirely too close to the booth or the statement was much louder that you are portraying. Every person’s inspection is a private affair not to be eavesdropped upon by the other passengers. Too much information can be discussed during the inspection that should not be public knowledge to the people around the inspection.

FB

tcm

As you may have noticed, the manner the CBP conducts inspections comes up frequently on this forum of FF. A little self-reflection might be more professional than accusing people to be wrong all the time

Firebug4

ahh I didn't accuse anyone in this thread of being wrong other than the officer for conducting the inspection in earshot of another passenger. In the other threads on this forum, I only correct people when they are giving bad information. I also support those occasions with the cite from the law, CFR, and regulations. I do this only because it is a disservice for people to spread bad information based on their opinion and not the law. It will cause the people taking that bad information based on opinion and cause them bigger problems. I am sorry I tend to be direct and don't sugarcoat it. I give accurate information that I have checked to be true based on Law and regs or I don't comment and add to the noise.

FB

tcm

You do have a tendency to dismiss any criticism of the CBP. The Law or any other regulation does not encourage ill manners towards visitors. Does it? The problem the DHS/CBP has in this regard should be looked upon in training the people who represent their country at their borders.

Superguy

We've come to expect that from certain posters.

Firebug4

I am sorry that you see it that way. I try not to dismiss anyones opinion good or bad. However, peoples opinions and criticisms are often based on their perceptions which can be accurate or inaccurate. Very often depending upon that person's personal experiences.

When it comes to a US Customs and Border Protection officer, peoples perceptions are all over the board. What I expect of a Customs and Border Protection officer is going to be very different than what you expect of a Customs and Border Protection officer. I expect an officer to be polite, professional (which I am sure means something different to you than it does to me) knowledgeable, thorough, and efficient.

What the officer is not is a Wal-mart greeter. People forget that the officer standing in front of you is a Law Enforcement Officer. He is not a clerk, a guard, or the welcome wagon. You make perceive that is function is one of those but what is expected of him by his job function and description is very different. The goal of the traveler when passing through the Federal Inspection Area is often at odds to what is goal of the CBP officer is. The traveler wants to pass through as quickly as possible with the least amount of inconvenience as possible. The officer's know and understand this. However, remember my list of what is expected of the officer. The efficient part goes to wards the passenger's goal. The knowledgeable and thorough part often works at odds with the passenger's goal. The officer in his need to be thorough often holds the passenger up from their goal of passing as quickly as possible.

This often frustrates the passenger because the passenger if they are in compliance or not. The officer does not and has to verify for himself and this takes time. The officer should be polite during this process with few exceptions but the process does have to be completed to the officer's satisfaction. The exceptions would not take place at a primary booth and involve abusive up to assaultive passengers.

In this particular thread do I think the officer acted appropriately, I can't say for sure. I am betting that the officer could have been more polite. I am also betting the passenger was not as mild mannered as OP paints the picture to be. I believe this because I know how we generally do business. It is very unlikely that the passenger overheard the exchange unless it was quite a bit louder that the story portrays or the OP was standing somewhere he should not have been. Again, this would have been the officer's fault This is because our primary inspections areas are set up to avoid overhearing inspections as much as possible. We are less successful in our secondary areas in this regard because much more area is given to primary inspection.

Like I said much of the conflict is based in perceptions and expectations. What you expect and perceive the function and purpose of the officer is very different from what the officers directives define what his purpose and function is.

FB

tcm

FB, you make valid points and I agree with most of it. However, I certainly do not expect an immigration officer to be the Wal Mart guy as you put it. The perceptions people get come from real life experiences. My understanding of professionalism is that an immigration officer performs his/her duty without insulting the person infront him/her. In other threads, as you might remember, I made the comparison of immigration officers in other countries. I am sorry to say that the CBP compares rather poorly with its counterparts in most of Europe and Asia (SIN, HKG, Japan) which are all affluent and face similar immigration challenges to the U.S.

Sherwood Hampton

I've already explained why I "did nothing". First of all, I was in serious danger of missing my connection to Washington National. I'd arrived on DL41 from LHR on Tuesday 15th June. When we arrived, on time, we were advised to remain in our seats because paramedics were going to board to deal with a sick passenger. This took some time. Then, typical for me, despite travelling in the J cabin and being one of the first off, I ended up being one of the last through immigration. This is due to them opening up the US citizens lanes which allowed most of the Y passengers to rush through before me, in effect jumping the queue and rushing from behind me. So, I wanted the immigration clearance to be processed as quickly as possible. As it happened, I only just made my flight as it was going from a far away D gate.

Secondly, do you seriously think I would stand a chance of having my opinion heard? What I was going to do was tell the young lad that he shouldn't have been talked to like that and that I had heard everything and that unfortunately some people let the power go to their heads.

Also, even though you accuse me of not bothering to do something about it, yet I've taken my time to post on FT. That's how much it bothered me even though it wasn't directed at me.

Saying "Jesus" is swearing?

No, because he was visibly upset that he was being chastised in such a manner. He didn't appear to be familiar with entering the USA. He obviously wasn't a frequent traveller. He was probably scared stiff that he had done something seriously wrong. The immigration officer seemed to pick up on this and really went to town on him. He was nothing but a coward.


Yes it was, and I heard the whole conversation clearly. I was the last to go through immigration it was 1835 at night with no other flights arriving.

The reason I got upset because I felt sorry for this lad who was being treat disgustingly by the immigration officer. You have to realise too that

No. I was behind the line. Do you honestly think anybody would allow me to stand too close? And the immigration hall was empty as I was the last one to be dealt with. Believe me, I am not exaggerating in the slightest. I heard the conversation clearly. The young lad didn't say much after he murmured "oh Jesus". It was the immigration officer who was saying things like "you're in America now, you don't say "Jesus" to me".


And yet I heard everything clearly. Maybe you should tell the border protection agency to move the yellow line further back at MSP then?


Really? On what basis? He was timid and clearly nervous. The immigration officer would have been able to see this and should have made allowances. What he did was talk to him like he was the lowest of the low.


You are making an awful lot of assumptions aren't you? I heard the conversation clearly and yet I was behind the yellow line. Why was I listening? Because I was going to be served next and wanted to know what kind of a mood the immigration officer was in. As it turns out, he was very friendly at first and I thought "that's good", but as soon as this young lad muttered "oh Jesus" he completely turned on him.