jtodd

You seem to be having a hard time grasping the main concept here.

I have no problem with a private/public company providing different levels of service for compensation. They can do this however they choose, as long as it is not illegal or discriminatory.

The government on the other hand can not and should not be operating as such. Capitalism has nothing to do with that. This is a democratic government, of by and for the people, whom are created equal, not a socialist or communist state. If that is what you would prefer, there are methods for becoming a member of such a state.

Often1

PC is available to anybody. One need not have "status" (to borrow air carrier marketing hype). The GE processing fee of $100 is, according to the CFR preamble, the approximate cost of the program and nobody has ever suggested that it is not.

The question of whether screening is appropriate and the authority of DHS to provide expedited and other programs, call it PC is over and done with.

The rest can complain all they want, but it's a useful and valuable program and "customer demand" is clear.

saulblum

Why should I have to pay any sum, and perhaps go out of my way to schedule an interview and have a background check all so that I can travel about my country perhaps without walking barefoot through the checkpoint and with a potentially reduced chance of being felt up by a government clerk?

In the private world this would be known as an extortion racket.

There is "customer demand" because the ordinary screening process has been made unduly burdensome. So instead of making the screening less burdensome for all, the solution is to make citizens pay to get the same type of screening that is standard at most countries around the world?

SFO777

While we may have been created equal, we do not live equally. Some of us live more equally than others, by taking advantage of opportunities and making things happen, instead of whining forever about perceived unfairness.

Perhaps you should have thought about before you voted last November.

Do you even travel anywhere? Walking thru security without removing your laptop, ipad (yes, you have to take this out in most other countries), liquids, jackets and coats is not the standard in any country I visited recently. Yes I do travel. A lot. In the past 12 months, I have been to the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, UAE, Sri Lanka, India, Myanmar, Australia, Hong Kong (China), Thailand, South Korea and Canada, many on multiple occasions. Not one of those countries has a system as remotely easy to use as PreCheck.

I love the system and the fact that people like you are too cheap, lazy or unwilling to get TT status. It leaves the PC lanes virtually empty for the rest of us. ^

Fredd

Remotely as easy? Hmm... The countries outside the U.S. I've flown in domestically, or departing on an international flight, have all been closer on the continuum to PreCheck than to the standard TSA experience. The only exceptions are India, where as you know you're frisked even when you board the DEL MRT, and on some occasions that second check before boarding US-bound flights.

Not having to remove my shoes and then find a place to put them back on without falling over makes a very big difference to me, and not having to face the possibility of an X-Ray scanner and consequent opt-out makes an even bigger difference. That's what I've experienced at foreign airport checkpoints.

Finally, for whatever reason the PreCheck employees act more like foreign checkpoint employees, i.e. calmer, more relaxed, and even friendly. Some of that may simply reflect the fact that at the moment they're less busy and those using the checkpoint are happier about the experience.

Again YMMV.

SFO777

OP was not arguing "closer". He claimed that PC is "the same type of screening that is standard at most countries around the world". That is nonsense and what I challenged. While you don't have to remove your shoes in many countries and you get a metal detector, you still have to remove laptops, keys, coins, coats, jackets, and in most countries, liquids. You also have to remove ipads which you don't have to do in the US.

Fredd

Please note I identified those very issues as making the biggest difference to me in the screening process. YMMV. It's regrettable I feel a knot in my stomach approaching TSA check points that I don't feel even in certain third-world or downright crummy countries (sorry if I'm too judgmental for your tastes).

Incidentally, I'm interested in your comment about not having to remove your shoes in "many" countries.

I can't recall offhand any country other than the U.S. requiring me to remove my shoes, with the exception of some situations where they've been screening pax for US-bound flights.

Could you please name some countries where you've been required to remove your shoes?

Edited to add: Actually, there's something of an answer to that question in this thread.

saulblum

And the fact that not having to walk barefoot through the checkpoint is touted as one of PreCheck's big selling points just shows how low we have sunk.

Think about it, just for a second: exactly one passenger thirteen years ago tried to light his shoes on fire -- that would be around 0.0000001% of the passengers who flew that year -- and since then, countless billions of shoes have been shed at American airport checkpoints.

Pretty insane, huh?

Fredd

One person's insanity/hysteria is another's gold-standard vigilance.

As a geezer, I also wonder if there's any liability if somebody of my vintage falls and breaks a hip or some other bodily part while trying to put my shoes back in those TSA check points clearly not designed to be supportive of the elderly, let alone the handicapped.

Oh, and to belatedly respond to this comment, SFO777, I'll see your cynicism and raise you one GAO Report. Still, I maintain naively it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

YMMV.

GUWonder

I too believe that all domestic passengers should have the right to choose to be screened at the airport checkpoints in the same way as those who get the PreCheck LLL treatment.

BubbaLoop

Boy I´m glad you "don´t cop an attitude".

I applied for PreCheck and was denied, despite the fact that I am a frequent flier with a European (ESTA) passport and nothing even vaguely "suspicious" in my background. In fact, I never had any problems with immigration, which always waves me through quickly and without questions. My problem is with the TSA: Their system is hap-hazard, designed to quiet down more vocal groups, but ignoring perfectly innocent minorities such as myself. They also treat me poorly because I travel with a foreign passport as ID, which is not exactly "copping an attitude", but enough to be mistreated at the checkpoint.

As for implying I am looking for handouts in the US, that is just plain offensive. I go to the US to exchange my knowledge and scientific findings, as well as to contribute as an organizer and director to a significant number of scientific societies. I am giving, not taking. You owe me an apology.

RadioGirl

BubbaLoop has already addressed this, but I'll add my 2 cents:
"not from the right country" - GE is available for citizens of the US (and LPRs), Mexico, South Korea, the Netherlands and (soon) Saudi Arabia. Nexus is available to citizens and LPRs of the US and Canada. That leaves about 195 countries which are "not the right country."
"not a frequent flyer" - you mean, not a frequent flyer on one of a handful of US-based airlines. As the FF programs share "information" with TSA to get PreCheck, presumably they would disqualify citizens/residents of "the wrong country". So it's not as if a French or Japanese citizen could get PreCheck just by joining the UA FF program.

I'm a FF on Qantas, SQ and soon to be gold on EK, but none of that would do me any good for PreCheck.

Saying "non-US citizens are eligible" when it's a very small subset of non-US citizens is disingenuous.
I don't expect any of those passengers to get "special" treatment. I expect them to be treated with dignity and respect, as indeed ALL passengers should be. What process do you think non-US citizen visitors to the US should have to "follow" to be treated fairly? Your attitude is that a citizen of Brazil or New Zealand should line up with the "rest of the kettles" to take off their shoes and be groped because they were too lazy to be a US citizen.

As others have said, this is not the same as paying for a commercial product (F seat, Y seat); this is about how the US government treats visitors within its borders. NO ONE should have to pay to get preferential treatment from the government, but with PreCheck, even people who would be willing to pay (to join GE) cannot because of their citizenship.
I have been treated very rudely by TSA, at LAX, DEN and BWI. As a result, I don't fly to the US anymore. And there are countless reports here of others being abused by TSA at airports across the country. Several of them have been well-documented and even acknowledged by the TSA. The passenger's attitude has nothing to do with it; the TSA's attitude of "respect my authority" has a lot to do with it.
For the record I'm a dual US/Australian citizen, raised in the suburbs of Washington DC and educated in the USA (valedictorian of my high school, Magna Cum Laude degree in Electrical Engineering, MSEE); but your continued assertion that foreigners are, by definition, stupid, is noted. (Oops.) Furthermore I've been a very active participant in this forum, discussing both TSA and CBP issues, for over 5 years, so I fully understand the difference between the functions of TSA and CBP. My point was not about which agency "lets people into the US" but about the attitude that the US government displays, in ALL its capacities, to the people from other countries who enter the US, whether as immigrants, as tourists, or for business development. And that attitude, as displayed by the PreCheck program, is that foreigners (except, of course, for the Canadians, Mexicans, Dutch, South Koreans and Saudis ) are intrinsically "dangerous" and need to go through extra scrutiny at the TSA checkpoint. Every country makes a distinction between its own citizens and "others" when it comes to the immigration process, but only the US does this at the security checkpoint as well. It's offensive.

I am aware of large international conferences which are now being held outside the US because both the TSA and the CBP processes are so unpleasant to foreign delegates. I am aware of people who have decided not to do business in the US because they're tired of this treatment. I have friends who take their tourism dollars elsewhere because of TSA's abuse. It's great that the US economy is so strong that these sort of losses are unimportant.
Not everyone who wants to go to the US is immigrating, nor are they looking for a handout. Some people have family they want to visit. Some people (used to) go there for medical, legal, scientific or other professional conferences - these people were pretty well-paid in their own country and far from needing a "handout", spent $$$$$$ on hotels, restaurants, shopping, etc. Some people wanted to see the Grand Canyon or Disneyland or New York or the White House. I didn't know there were handouts available for tourists.

RadioGirl

Duplicate...

mybodyismyown

Possibly relevant for people who are in Pre-Check yet consistently get denied Pre-Check benefits at the airport:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...ck-united.html

United has some software glitch that means they usually fail to associate Pre-Check with my reservations. Usually these are reservations that have been booked for me by some third party when I travel for work. I really don't know of anything I could do differently to make the Pre-check flag appear on my reservations, but it seems that any UA agent can fix the problem if I can find one willing to do it. This has to be done over and over, for every one of my United reservations.

saulblum

Amazing how with the flick of a United agent's keyboard you can go from a potential shoe-bomb-concealing passenger to a trusted traveler.