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Known Crewmember Program: No more AA crew cutting security lines

Known Crewmember Program: No more AA crew cutting security lines

Old Nov 28, 12, 3:43 pm
  #31  
 
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A couple of weeks ago I had this happen in Austin, Tx. I was waiting in the elite/first class queue for screening and a guy (not in uniform) tried to elbow me out of the way. I stood my ground. I told him there was a line and to respect it. He "moved" me out of the way and proceeded to the head of the line. I later saw him on the other side. Inside his open jacket I saw some sort of an i.d., attached to his shirt.
All he had to say as he approached me from behind was, "crew coming through", and I would have stepped aside.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 3:47 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
I'm sorry for your loss, but boxcutters weren't the problem that day. Crews cooperating with terrorists were.
On that flight, the crew did not cooperate with the terrorists until after two flight attendants had suffered serious wounds and a passenger had his throat slit with one of the boxcutters, and bled to death. I know that you are quite courageous, sitting at your computer. If you have not experienced watching somebody else bleed to death, let me assure you it can be quite unsettling.

Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
I would be happy to fly with sharp objects any time, any place.
Statement speaks for itself.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 3:51 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Then you and gemac should be disturbed by the advent of this KCM program, as it greatly increases the odds that boxcutters or revolvers or any other prohibited item will be admitted into the sterile area of the airport (now that pilots and FAs will oftentimes waltz thru security without a scan of their person or bags).
I'm more disturbed by the FAs being exempted. The pilots don't really nead boxcutters or revolvers. Besides, pilots were already being allowed to board with handguns, IIRC.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 3:51 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gemac View Post
On that flight, the crew did not cooperate with the terrorists until after two flight attendants had suffered serious wounds and a passenger had his throat slit with one of the boxcutters, and bled to death. I know that you are quite courageous, sitting at your computer. If you have not experienced watching somebody else bleed to death, let me assure you it can be quite unsettling.
I already know it acutely and have prevented it from happening on more than one occasion (someone bleeding to death). I've moved on, and would have regardless of the outcome. I've seen a lot of things I wish I could unsee. I'm not going to let those things keep me from living my life as freely as I possibly can, nor will I attempt to restrict others' freedoms.

Broken wine glasses or hundreds of other items that are permitted today would have effected the same outcome, regardless of your fixation with the particular tool chosen that day.

Last edited by Spiff; Nov 28, 12 at 4:16 pm
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Old Nov 28, 12, 3:58 pm
  #35  
 
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I think it is frustrating because just how passengers show up ahead of time for a flight, the crew can also show up a little earlier to get to their job.

Originally Posted by sellouts View Post
So they use the precheck line? Makes sense, great for those airports that are using precheck.

I've never understood the annoyance for pilots/crew cutting the line for security, personally.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 4:01 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by gemac View Post
I'm more disturbed by the FAs being exempted. The pilots don't really nead boxcutters or revolvers. Besides, pilots were already being allowed to board with handguns, IIRC.
It's one thing to know that your colleague pilot is an FFDO (officially armed pilot). I'll bet it's quite another to find out that your non-FFDO colleague pilot brought a gun that day (thanks to the KCM program) as he/she shoots you and repeats Sept 11. Or the EgyptAir tragedy. It's not the particular weapon - it's all about getting the drop on somebody when they aren't expecting it.

Besides, the weakness in this program, IMO, is the possibility that the KCMs are now potential unwitting mules. Between the pilots and FAs, there are almost 25,000 potential unwitting mules at AA alone. Rumours are that the FA arrested last Friday may have in fact been set up by her spouse.

The TSA still cares (a little) about the KCMs as it reserves the right to randomly screen them and the KCM program does not entitle the crewmembers to any additional exemptions from the prohibited items list. Non-FFDOs are not permitted (officially) to bring firearms or boxcutters, and there must be some reason for that.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 4:15 pm
  #37  
 
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i remember the old days when the crew *always* went through the exit and never was screened before working a flight (this had to have been the late 80s or early 90s). in fact, i do not think anyone with a badge had to go through security. i do not recall all the facts, but i do remember it was about the time a rogue employee started shooting colleagues that the crews began to be subjected to going through normal security procedures.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 4:28 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by OMAguy View Post
i remember the old days when the crew *always* went through the exit and never was screened before working a flight (this had to have been the late 80s or early 90s). in fact, i do not think anyone with a badge had to go through security. i do not recall all the facts, but i do remember it was about the time a rogue employee started shooting colleagues that the crews began to be subjected to going through normal security procedures.
Here's the tragedy that changed that:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-12-...16_1_psa-pilot

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa1771.shtml
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Old Nov 28, 12, 4:35 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by filelover View Post
I think it is frustrating because just how passengers show up ahead of time for a flight, the crew can also show up a little earlier to get to their job.
Except this is not always possible.Airlines want to get the maximum possible working day out of crews.When laying over the company will always book transport for the latest possible time assuming no security queue.The crew often have no input in the time they arrive at the airport.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 4:58 pm
  #40  
 
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Exempting anyone entering the sterile side of the airport from a basic screening is a terrible idea.

Being a crew member doesnt exempt one from bad behavior. Beyond the famous Pacific Southwest and Fedex sledgehammer cases, plenty of "known crew members" have been caught trafficking drugs etc. Here is a recent Qantas one for example:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/qa...127-2a47c.html
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Old Nov 28, 12, 5:20 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by FLLDL View Post
... plenty of "known crew members" have been caught trafficking drugs etc.
The purpose of airport security is not to screen for drugs or other contraband, other then weapons and other stuff that threatens the safety of flights (like 3.5 oz bottles of shampoo).
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Old Nov 28, 12, 5:27 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by sellouts View Post
I've never understood the annoyance for pilots/crew cutting the line for security, personally.
Annoyance factors:
- At international airports and hub airports,m the flight crew represent a constant stream of people. So the line shuts down for 10-15 minutes while the flight crew for multiple flights or large wideboday aircraft go through.
- Attitude displayed by some crew members is well, impolite to say the least.
- Flight crew tend to not only cutr the line but also toss away pax belongs off the belt and push pax to get immediately through the lineup. In essence the flight are not willing to accept a 1-2 minute wait while pax with carryon articles on the belt are handled.
- While flight crew display a sense of urgency at the security line, they immediately head for the 15 minute starbuck line once through security.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 5:33 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by YEG Guy View Post
Annoyance factors:
- At international airports and hub airports,m the flight crew represent a constant stream of people. So the line shuts down for 10-15 minutes while the flight crew for multiple flights or large wideboday aircraft go through.
- Attitude displayed by some crew members is well, impolite to say the least.
- Flight crew tend to not only cutr the line but also toss away pax belongs off the belt and push pax to get immediately through the lineup. In essence the flight are not willing to accept a 1-2 minute wait while pax with carryon articles on the belt are handled.
- While flight crew display a sense of urgency at the security line, they immediately head for the 15 minute starbuck line once through security.

+1

Could not agree more.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 5:51 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by YEG Guy View Post
Annoyance factors:
- At international airports and hub airports,m the flight crew represent a constant stream of people. So the line shuts down for 10-15 minutes while the flight crew for multiple flights or large wideboday aircraft go through.
- Attitude displayed by some crew members is well, impolite to say the least.
- Flight crew tend to not only cutr the line but also toss away pax belongs off the belt and push pax to get immediately through the lineup. In essence the flight are not willing to accept a 1-2 minute wait while pax with carryon articles on the belt are handled.
- While flight crew display a sense of urgency at the security line, they immediately head for the 15 minute starbuck line once through security.
-- International airports are not subject to the program that we're discussing. This is a problem with the specific international airport. Also I've called nothing but hub airports home. DFW -- so many gates and security points that it never slows down like that. LAX -- again, never 10-15 minutes even at the peak early morning times when I've flown out. But maybe it's been a problem other times I haven't flown out of there?

-- Attitude displayed by some elites is more frequently bad than pilots, maybe we should cut elite / Precheck lines to punish everyone for the bad behavior of a few?

-- I have never seen a crew member touch a bag that wasn't theirs, nor have I seen them assault anyone by pushing them. I have, however seen the DYKWIA crowd do this. But again, elite behavior is more often more rude than this and no matter what we're talking about a very very few bad apples when compared to the total group.

-- Elites display a sense of entitlement like they're in a hurry but then run to the lounge to wait. Most of the time when you see a crew member going to get coffee it's the captain. They've begun the paperwork for the flight and are running to get coffee before the flight. The rest of the crew is working, co pilot doing the preflight, etc. Also many times the captain in line is part of a multi-leg trip and cleared security hours ago in another city.
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Old Nov 28, 12, 5:54 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by YEG Guy View Post
Annoyance factors:
- At international airports and hub airports,m the flight crew represent a constant stream of people. So the line shuts down for 10-15 minutes while the flight crew for multiple flights or large wideboday aircraft go through.
- Attitude displayed by some crew members is well, impolite to say the least.
- Flight crew tend to not only cutr the line but also toss away pax belongs off the belt and push pax to get immediately through the lineup. In essence the flight are not willing to accept a 1-2 minute wait while pax with carryon articles on the belt are handled.
- While flight crew display a sense of urgency at the security line, they immediately head for the 15 minute starbuck line once through security.
Well said ! ^

--J
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