Originally Posted by RatherBeOnATrain (Post 19700337)

It did not go well for a passenger with a medical condition at PWM:


WCSH, Channel 6:
Woman claims she was humiliated by TSA
5:55 PM, Nov 16, 2012

A short quote:
andI think the takeaway from this article is that it is easier for a pax to get their local media to cover their assault than it is to submit a TSA complaint.

Originally Posted by chollie (Post 19700701)

(sigh)

This makes me think of gsoltso - not that he would advocate something like this happening, but that he expressed dissatisfaction with airing TSA's blunders in the media.

TSA's official statement was better word-smithed, but still telling. The spokesperson says the tapes didn't show any females rolling up their sleeves. Why didn't they show the actual footage of the pax? I suspect it's for any number of reasons: they never bothered to look at the tape, the tape doesn't exist because it was turned off, not covering the checkpoint area in question or deleted, or it showed that the pax was telling the truth and TSA lied.

TSA points the blame (again) back at the pax if anything did go wrong, saying that:

1) they can't address a problem if the pax doesn't report it (true, except when a pax does report it to TSA, nothing happens. If a pax reports it to the media, at least the TSA spokesperson has to get up off his/her fat butt and make a statement denying the pax's story (as they did in this case); if it's egregious enough and gets in the media big time, Bob makes a blog post blaming the pax.

TSA will help their reputation immensely if they released the exculpatory tapes ALL the time (they were quick to do so when a pax stole a rolex, not so quick when TSO Ramirez stole an Ipad. In that case, they had taken no action, even a tape review, two weeks after the theft report).

2) Sickeningly, as so often happens in these situations, the TSA reminded pax that private screenings are available. Ah, yes, the private, non-filmable screenings where the pax+witness are out-numbered by TSOs, so it is even more a 'he said/she said' situation than it already is at the checkpoint.
Private gropes are the most frightening thing that can happen at a checkpoint, because TSA knows it can do anything in that room with impunity - no random camera footage from a possible 'good apple' that might go whistle-blower if the offense is egregious enough, no random pax taking a telling cellphone pix.

In other words, TSA's answer to complaints of misconduct in an area supposedly covered by cameras is 'let us take you into the back room next time, trust us'. :td::td:

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 20622334)

Sorry I missed this earlier. It is not that I disagree with airing negative things about TSA at all, quite the opposite - I recommend that we take it on the chin publicly when we are proved conclusively in the wrong. I disagree with taking a story on face value, with nothing to back it up (even when it is something we post). I wish every square inch of the checkpoint was under video for 2 reasons:

1) to protect the passengers from theft, mistreatment and to give us something to consult for complaints lodged by a passenger.

2) to protect the TSOs from the exact same things and to give us something to consult when a complaint is lodged against an employee.

One problem that I notice is in many cases some folks automatically take the side of the person making a claim, with nothing to back it up but a statement made (in a myriad of locations - blogs, newsies, etc). Even if TSA reviews video and finds nothing to support the story being posted (such as in the case of the Marine that was reported to have been asked to remove his prosthetics), the response is often too late, or too vague to effectively address the issue.

In some cases these stories are pure hogwash, in some cases, these stories are the truth and we should do something about it - in either case, we should be allowed a bit of time for due diligence, to make certain we do what we are supposed to do. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case in this post "CSI" world, where every situation can be solved perfectly in an hour or less :rolleyes:.

I also happen to think that we should be training more often on how to best help people with disabilities transit the checkpoints. Our first question to a passenger with a disability should be "how may we help you today" and we should communicate effectively with that passenger throughout the entire process. This is something that I hear a great many complaints on, and tend to agree with - not all passengers with a disability need our assistance in any way shape or form, while some need as much help as they can get. We should be more uniformly prepared to deal with any of those circumstances at any time. I think that the program for Passenger Support Specialists is a good start for TSA, I think it will help those passengers a great deal. On the other hand, I think that it should not be a select group of employees that are able to effectively assist this group of passengers through - it should be all of us effectively assisting all passengers through equally.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 20622407)

The public often takes the passengers side of things because we don't trust or believe TSA. Take the case of the Marine. TSA claims nothing happened but provides zero supporting evidence. Not good enough.

If TSA wants to help the public start with keeping your dirty hands off of us.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 20622407)

The public often takes the passengers side of things because we don't trust or believe TSA. Take the case of the Marine. TSA claims nothing happened but provides zero supporting evidence. Not good enough.

If TSA wants to help the public start with keeping your dirty hands off of us.

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 20622334)

Sorry I missed this earlier. It is not that I disagree with airing negative things about TSA at all, quite the opposite - I recommend that we take it on the chin publicly when we are proved conclusively in the wrong. I disagree with taking a story on face value, with nothing to back it up (even when it is something we post). I wish every square inch of the checkpoint was under video for 2 reasons:

1) to protect the passengers from theft, mistreatment and to give us something to consult for complaints lodged by a passenger.

2) to protect the TSOs from the exact same things and to give us something to consult when a complaint is lodged against an employee.

One problem that I notice is in many cases some folks automatically take the side of the person making a claim, with nothing to back it up but a statement made (in a myriad of locations - blogs, newsies, etc). Even if TSA reviews video and finds nothing to support the story being posted (such as in the case of the Marine that was reported to have been asked to remove his prosthetics), the response is often too late, or too vague to effectively address the issue.

In some cases these stories are pure hogwash, in some cases, these stories are the truth and we should do something about it - in either case, we should be allowed a bit of time for due diligence, to make certain we do what we are supposed to do. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case in this post "CSI" world, where every situation can be solved perfectly in an hour or less :rolleyes:.

I also happen to think that we should be training more often on how to best help people with disabilities transit the checkpoints. Our first question to a passenger with a disability should be "how may we help you today" and we should communicate effectively with that passenger throughout the entire process. This is something that I hear a great many complaints on, and tend to agree with - not all passengers with a disability need our assistance in any way shape or form, while some need as much help as they can get. We should be more uniformly prepared to deal with any of those circumstances at any time. I think that the program for Passenger Support Specialists is a good start for TSA, I think it will help those passengers a great deal. On the other hand, I think that it should not be a select group of employees that are able to effectively assist this group of passengers through - it should be all of us effectively assisting all passengers through equally.

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 20622334)

Our first question to a passenger with a disability should be "how may we help you today" and we should communicate effectively with that passenger throughout the entire process.

Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20622875)

And many of us have had experiences, or witnessed things, similar to what is claimed, and thus can believe that it happens.

I still filter out stories reported here. If certain people post, I don't place much credence into their posts.

But I am one who changed my opinion over the years. I used to think that TS&S was populated by tinfoil hat wearing loonies, until I had similar experiences. And I had not just one, but several, ranging from ID issues (pesky furrin' passport at IAD among other airports), poor treatment because I have physical limitations, unprofessional behaviour, bullying behaviour, etc.

I also think that there are many, many unreported stories out there. I doubt that I would ever go to the media (fear as a furriner) unless things went to the extreme, but I can see how some people use that as a recourse, especially in light of my past experiences trying to 'give feedback' to TSA.

And gsoltso, many people don't consider themselves to have a disability or identify themselves as 'different'. This woman has an auto-immune disease which impacts her physically, as do thousands of people who pass through airport checkpoints around the world daily. She may not have thought of any need to identify herself as 'disabled' in advance. I question why my personal situation causes zero issue around the world, but at TSA checkpoints I am a 'problem'.

Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 20622896)

I agree with you for the most part, and I really, truly do try to give TSA the benefit of the doubt when they are accused of impropriety. But it's difficult to give an agency the right of innocence until proven guilty when they deny that to tens of millions of people per year - you are guilty until proven temporarily innocent at a TSA c/p. Still, I try to take the high road and not rush to snap judgements.

But leaving that aside, it is awfully damning when TSA actually says - as it has in this case - that they reviewed the c/p tapes and found that the accusation is false, yet they don't release the tapes. Why not? What possible reason could they have for not releasing footage that clearly proves them right? They've done so in the past, and it has immediately put the public on their side and cleared the agency's name. They've also released footage - next day, if I recall - when TSOs did something extraordinarily good, or were victims, as in the recent case where a TSO was attacked and an off-duty cop camer to her aid.

The fact that footage of these alleged incidents is withheld after TSA reviews it and claims it clears the TSOs is suspicious to me, and to most on FT. What are they hiding? The fact that they're telling the truth? Unlikely.

As I said, I try not to rush to judgement, but lack of available footage at a c/p - where incidents almost always happen within a rather small common area between the x-ray belt and the penalty box - is either an indication of impropriety or incompetence. Neither looks good for the agency, because they're either telling the truth, which means there is a gaping hole in camera coverage right in the middle of the part of the c/p where cameras are most needed, or they're lying, which means they have footage and are denying it for some reason.

So, really, no matter what the outcome, it's bad for TSA. Hence, the tendency on the part of FTers to knee-jerk react in favor of the alleged victim rather than the agency.

Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 20622909)

Frankly, TSA's first question to every passenger should be "how may we help you today".

1) Many disabilities are invisible at first glance. At first glance, a TSO may not obviously notice that a passenger has an insulin pump requiring special handling, or a shoulder injury that prevents them from using AIT, or a prosthetic limb, or any of hundreds of other issues. Waiting until the disability is "discovered" creates the opportunity for the TSO to inadvertently create a hostile screening experience.

2) A service-oriented mentality among TSOs would do wonders for improving the checkpoint screening experience. As folks such as you and Dean have demonstrated multiple times, such a mentality not only eases the inherent tension at a checkpoint, it actually helps the TSO do a better job of screening the passenger.

(And I expect that you already agree with me, of course.)

Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 20623295)

I can not argue with anything you say, many people are in a similar set of circumstances and have formed a negative opinion based upon their own experiences. The only thing I can ask of those folks is to file complaints every single time they have problems or unprofessional TSOs - I understand the challenges that result of that with respect to the apparent lack of response by TSA. I have had several people here and at other sites that indicate they have had no response of substance from TSA on their complaints. I hate that it has happened, but there are some elements in the organization that are more proactive with customer commentary than others, and I have seen some positive responses to customer complaints locally. Hopefully moving forward there will be a better job done in addressing customer commentary - when it is positive, but even more importantly when it is negative or challenging.

As someone from a different country, you should recieve essentially the same treatment as a citizen - you are entitled to professional and courteous treatment, with no exceptions. Sadly based upon many of the stories I hear here, that is not always the case - but that is not ever to be used as an excuse.

Agreed on the disabilities that do not present themselves in a noticeable fashion, ditto the notification or consideration of themselves as disabled. As far as passengers that have a disability of any kind, they are entitled to the same professional and courteous treatment that all passengers should have. If they need some additional assistance, we should give it to them without fail (as JKHuggins pointed out, this should be the case with every passenger). I don't necessarily need to know what disability a person has, simply what I can do to help them through the screening process, and I should communicate effectively with them so they understand what has to happen, and how we are going to go about it. I have had personal experiences with family members that had pretty limiting disabilities, and the challenges that most of us notice them having do not even begin to describe the tip of the iceberg that can be their reality - the least we can do is communicate and help them when they need it, if not work to help them to smile a bit during the process.



I can not argue with these points either. I have always advocated a come out with the cards you have been dealt and move forward from there. We should address these issues head on, and work to prevent the bad things from happening again, and praise the good things that happen.



Kudos, I could not have said any of this any better.

The better we as TSOs treat the passengers, the more the conversation turns toward policy discussions. Once policy becomes the main conversation, changes based on that discussion can come to the front much quicker. The more we have bad press over someone doing something wrong, the slower that discussion on policy will be.

Edit to add: I do agree with this, and much of what you say.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 20624214)

I filed a complaint with FLL TSA over an suspected attempted theft by a screener and Tim Lewis, FLL's FSD, covered up for the screener. I filed a complaint at DFW against LTSO Gerard and DFW TSA would not do anything unless I communicated by telephone even after explaining I have a hearing problem. Complaints to or about TSA and its employees are pointless when at TSA the standard response is that "proper procedures were followed".

TSA is only interested in what is good for TSA, not what is good for the public.

Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 20624390)

I will have no problem with them saying proper procedures were followed when they will tell me what the procedures are.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 20624214)

I filed a complaint with FLL TSA over an suspected attempted theft by a screener and Tim Lewis, FLL's FSD, covered up for the screener. I filed a complaint at DFW against LTSO Gerard and DFW TSA would not do anything unless I communicated by telephone even after explaining I have a hearing problem. Complaints to or about TSA and its employees are pointless when at TSA the standard response is that "proper procedures were followed".

TSA is only interested in what is good for TSA, not what is good for the public.