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Originally Posted by aaexnonrev
(Post 19056592)
I understand and sympathize with you situation a birth certificate doesn't prove anything just like you described. But the USVI is not the US and is not US soil. It is a territory with its own laws, government, and customs. They drive on the left side of the road and can't vote in federal elections. I love the USVI but when I go there I don't have the attitude that I am on US soil.
Among all territories, only Puerto Rico is within the regular US customs jurisdiction. All other territories have their own customs. Guam, CNMI are separate US immigration jurisdictions. American Samoa's immigration isn't even run by the US government. |
Originally Posted by tanja
(Post 19064154)
I hear what you are saying.
In my case was that me and son both speak swedish/english. Have swedish passports. A minor child in Sweden cant get an passport unless both parents sign the paper work for a passport. Plus you can tell that he is my son.He is very much looking like me.:D Some of the most systemstically ridiculous things I have seen when it comes to passport handling in dozens of countries is in Sweden, including because a huge proportion of Swedish passports have incorrect place of birth listings since they use a reactionary parish-type registration system that has parental address as place of birth even as most people are no longer born at home in Sweden. That all said I agree with you that the CBP often makes a stink when parent and child's last names are different from one another. What has made matters worse is that the governmental clowns in the US and elsewhere have forgotten or are ignorant that majority Western European naming conventions are not universal. For example, often first names are family names in some parts of the world or a middle name may be a given name while the other names don't follow the most common US type naming traditions in recent generations. .... And when it comes to parent/guardian and children who don't appear to be of entirely the same ethnic background(s), racist and sexist perceptions creep into the way such persons are challenged by government power-trip types who are petty little Napoleons. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 19064263)
A minor child in Sweden may be able to get a passport even when both parents don't sign the paperwork for a Swedish passport: amongst applicable circumstances (for some but not all) vary from a child only having one custodial parent, to other custodial parent locked up overseas, or to a Swedish custodial parent taking advantage of custodial non-Swedish parent and applying by having someone else attesting to the signature of the non-Swedish custodial parent because the national police (who issue passports) refuse to accept foreign passports as ID for custodial non-Swedish parents when it comes to such applications.
Some of the most systemstically ridiculous things I have seen when it comes to passport handling in dozens of countries is in Sweden, including because a huge proportion of Swedish passports have incorrect place of birth listings since they use a reactionary parish-type registration system that has parental address as place of birth even as most people are no longer born at home in Sweden. That all said I agree with you that the CBP often makes a stink when parent and child's last names are different from one another. What has made matters worse is that the governmental clowns in the US and elsewhere have forgotten or are ignorant that majority Western European naming conventions are not universal. For example, often first names are family names in some parts of the world or a middle name may be a given name while the other names don't follow the most common US type naming traditions in recent generations. .... And when it comes to parent/guardian and children who don't appear to be of entirely the same ethnic background(s), racist and sexist perceptions creep into the way such persons are challenged by government power-trip types who are petty little Napoleons. I hear you . When I did that years ago. They needed both parents signature with picture . Otherwise NO.And they were very strict about that. Plus 2 witnesess to the signature. My signature was verified by a swedish high rank police. Me and my son have blonde hair and blue eyes. Plus he was much taller than mE. We also had joint custody .That eeven if the son lived with me.. We never ever had problems with that. Other people did! To the name thing . My third name is the name I have gone by my whole life since birth. The 2 first ones are my middle names. |
Originally Posted by FlyingHoustonian
(Post 19058238)
No you look, it is very simple. I am discussing all areas. You might not be.
But The fact remains the USVI has seperate customs laws, and because CBP is now one agency they were not out of order in asking. The point is the question is absurd because it proves nothing about kidnapping. |
Originally Posted by Affection
(Post 19061327)
I actually know this guy who has a fake Hawaii birth certificate...
--Jon |
Originally Posted by N1120A
(Post 19067475)
Different customs, but not immigration laws. That's the big difference. This agent was out of line.
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Originally Posted by FlyingHoustonian
(Post 19068100)
While none of us might agree with that policy, and unlike the TSA making up many rules as they go along, this officer actually has that as one of his general duties. They actually pull immigration duty all the time in the USVI. I have seen them give American, LPRs, and foreign visitors the 3rd degree just as they would at a formal border crossing.
My guess is that a birth certificate is not remotely required. Otherwise, the airline would take the responsibility of verifying possession so they don't have to provide free freight home for a "deported" passenger, just like they do with passports and visas on ex-US international flights. I can (barely) tolerate immigration/customs going on fishing expeditions with questions like this based on twisted law-enforcement logic, but the OP stated that they were told "'next time you'd better have her birth certificate." That is a command from a government official acting under color of authority that I suspect is utterly false. If so, it should be grounds for termination. This routine seems very similar to the internal Constitution-free highway checkpoints border patrol likes to set up "near" the land borders. They can ask me about my citizenship or really any other questions, but I am under no obligation to provide them with or carry my US passport, and any insinuation that I should be carrying a passport would presumably be a problem. |
Originally Posted by studentff
(Post 19068882)
What documents, if any, is a US citizen or the parents of a minor US Citizen required to carry to enter the USVI and return to the United States?
A passport is not "required" to travel to border regions and non-incorporated territories, but IDs are "recommended" because of the "legality" of "checkpoints" (border patrol, territorial airports). They are still required to let you pass--eventually. This may not have been well enough advertized (or explained in TIMATIC). |
Originally Posted by okamzikprosim
(Post 19056604)
Interesting... I've flown from SJU to the Mainland before and never encountered anything like this. What is this about?
Checking birth certificates or passports leaving Guam and the CMNI would make sense as the Pacific territories have their own visas and visa-waiver program that are not valid (in their own right) for the Mainland, and CBP has a presence in Agana and Saipan to ensure departing travelers are either US Citizens or have the correct visa or ESTA to travel to the 50 States. The Virgin Islands on the other hands have the same immigration rules as the rest of the country... |
C**P
Originally Posted by tentseller
(Post 19063907)
IMHO It is very irresponsible for parents to travel anywhere without the birth certificate (the only legal ID) of their child.
It is accepted proof of identity of the child and the parental/guardian relationship. One example: if anything happens to the child and medical attention is needed, without a birth certificate to ascertain your legal connection and your authority to act on their behalf your child will be subjected to whatever the doctor/local authorities' treatment without your input. |
Originally Posted by thomwithanh
(Post 19071246)
The Virgin Islands on the other hands have the same immigration rules as the rest of the country...
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
(Post 19069157)
There is a law requiring US citizens to have passports to travel internationally outside the Western Hemisphere. If you don't have one, you'll still be let in eventually, but you'll be penalized for breaking that law.
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Nothing politically related (as this thread seems to have been hijacked to), but if you plan to travel with your child as a lap child you may be asked for a birth certificate within the U.S. to verify their age. Most airline websites will indicate that they require I.D. to verify their age, especially when they get close to the 2 year old cut off for lap child qualification.
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Originally Posted by GalleyWench
(Post 19079028)
Nothing politically related (as this thread seems to have been hijacked to), but if you plan to travel with your child as a lap child you may be asked for a birth certificate within the U.S. to verify their age. Most airline websites will indicate that they require I.D. to verify their age, especially when they get close to the 2 year old cut off for lap child qualification.
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
(Post 19069157)
There is a law requiring US citizens to have passports to travel internationally outside the Western Hemisphere. If you don't have one, you'll still be let in eventually, but you'll be penalized for breaking that law.
Bruce |
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