A thought about taking my son to the airport
Jul 29, 2012, 5:05 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,685
It's largely because military people have experienced things that make the "goon walk" look like a little girl's tea party. Aside from the whole "violation of civil rights" thing, which IS a significant and intolerable issue but WON'T be resolved by copping attitude with the "goon squad" while going through a CP, getting your nuts grabbed or your bag searched is not a big deal to most military members (active or vets). Maybe things have changed since I was in the military but when you start your first morning by being woken up to the sound of a trash can lid being thrown against the wall less that 2 feet from your head and the words "Get the f&%$ out of your racks you bunch of lazy syphilated p%$#ies", shower and use the toilet withing a foot of dozens of other people, get searched most every time you enter an overseas base or a ship and get shot at by strangers on a regular basis, you know what? Having your nuts grabbed so you can get onto a plane or having a crying kid 5 rows up from you just isn't that big of a deal anymore.
As for the OP's son, I can appreciate the trepidation to go through TSA screening when you describe events like that. Thanks, but no thanks, I put up with the govt's cr*p in the service, no need to willingly subject myself to the gropes as a civilian.
Jul 30, 2012, 10:18 am
#32
Join Date: Feb 2011
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- People with brown ID cards have little business commenting on the serious subject of security clearances, especially if they don't know the background of their target audience. Or any other time, for that matter. Dependents should stick with dependent issues when discussing things military.
Newsflash, buddy. Some of us WORK.
Jul 30, 2012, 1:23 pm
#33
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Jul 31, 2012, 1:39 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Low level bureaucrats check the ID of military personnel on a daily basis to gain access to military bases, utilize things like the base exchange and buy gas for their car. Does he get tense when someone asks for his ID then? Maybe so, but odds are high that he shows ID to a Rent-A-Cop every morning just to get through a gate.
For personnel carrying military ID, random vehicle searches happen rarely and only when the threat condition rises (which hasn't in a while). However, your body does not get searched, even when your vehicle is searched. The gate guard may be a low ranking Private or a civilian policeman, but there are no overzealous use of power because all parties are being held accountable at these gates by the superiors in their separate chains of command. Military courtesy is practiced, and proper salutes and greetings are exchanged.
The bottom line that is in reference to the subject of this thread is once the gate guard makes positive ID that the person entering the gate is a service member, he is allowed passage. This is not what happens at airports. You could be General MacArthur, and they will still body scan you and finger your testicles to ensure you're not a threat.
The bases who have what you are referring to as "Rent-a-cops." These are actual trained and sworn law enforcement officers who have the authority by federal statute to carry firearms and make arrests under Title 18 and the UCMJ. In other words, they are real cops. Certainly not someone you would compare to TSO's or "rent-a-cops" who only have the authority to conduct searches.
Jul 31, 2012, 6:08 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2004
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The bases who have what you are referring to as "Rent-a-cops." These are actual trained and sworn law enforcement officers who have the authority by federal statute to carry firearms and make arrests under Title 18 and the UCMJ. In other words, they are real cops. Certainly not someone you would compare to TSO's or "rent-a-cops" who only have the authority to conduct searches.
I much prefer the bases with active duty types manning the gates.
Jul 31, 2012, 10:56 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2004
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When I expressed what I consider to be mild surprise that the OP's son was tense about going through security at an airport, it was because I find TSA screening insignificant and fluffy. I didn't call the guy a P*$$y or anything like that. I was, and am, surprised that someone of his experience would find the TSA anything other than a gnat-like annoyance. We all don't have the same experiences, so we all don't have the same level of trepidation on flight day. It is inconceivable (props to Wally Shawn) to me that I would be tense about facing a TSA employee.
Aug 4, 2012, 10:29 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
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You make some excellent points regarding some military installations. The bolded section is most definitely NOT the case at the two bases on which I work. (One base is fairly small, with only about 3,000 military and 5,000 civilians. The other is much larger.) Both are staffed by employees of a private security firm. They are about 80/20 unarmed/armed. Some of them are extremely professional. Some are not. They do not observe military courtesies, except for the random military retiree.
I much prefer the bases with active duty types manning the gates.
I much prefer the bases with active duty types manning the gates.
I don't find it surprising that a vet would experience some trepidation about going through a checkpoint manned by non-LEO, non-military civilians with minimal training and broad, wide-reaching powers of physical search and seizure, with vague, nebulous limitations, who may or may not want to rub your entire body and stick their fingers inside your pants and collar, irradiate you, or view naked pictures of you. Such trepidation doesn't make him a wimp, it makes him an American who values the sanctity of his own body and the rights and freedoms he spent years defending in the military.
Aug 4, 2012, 12:59 pm
#38
Join Date: Jun 2012
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I always find comments like this interesting. Firearms are a tool of the trade for people who work in law enforcement and security.
When was the last time someone said "I was at a construction site the other day and ALL had hammers!"
Back when I was in the job I used to work security gigs on the side occasionally and when allowed. I refused to work unarmed. A firearm was just one of the many tools of the trade that I carried but it was one that HAD TO be there when/if I needed it. I was trained to respect and rely on it.
Once in awhile a client would say they didn't want me to carry a gun and when I asked why they would say something like "Well, I don't want you to shoot anyone." No kidding?!?! Guess what? I don't want me shooting anyone either, but the ONLY reason I will is to keep someone else from getting killed or seriously injured. So, the question you have to ask yourself is this: IF someone wants to take your life, or someone elses, do you want me to stand by and watch them or do you want me to stop them? Do you tell carpenters to leave their hammers at home too or do you hire professionals to do a job and trust them to do it because they know more about what they do than you do?
Not directed at the OP, BTW. Just a comment or two in general....
When was the last time someone said "I was at a construction site the other day and ALL had hammers!"
Back when I was in the job I used to work security gigs on the side occasionally and when allowed. I refused to work unarmed. A firearm was just one of the many tools of the trade that I carried but it was one that HAD TO be there when/if I needed it. I was trained to respect and rely on it.
Once in awhile a client would say they didn't want me to carry a gun and when I asked why they would say something like "Well, I don't want you to shoot anyone." No kidding?!?! Guess what? I don't want me shooting anyone either, but the ONLY reason I will is to keep someone else from getting killed or seriously injured. So, the question you have to ask yourself is this: IF someone wants to take your life, or someone elses, do you want me to stand by and watch them or do you want me to stop them? Do you tell carpenters to leave their hammers at home too or do you hire professionals to do a job and trust them to do it because they know more about what they do than you do?
Not directed at the OP, BTW. Just a comment or two in general....
