warning before groping?
 

I recently flew american airlines from BOS to ORD and back, on weekdays. It was my first experience with the "non-ionizing" radiation machine, which is just pure luck I guess. BOTH ways, I was casually groped by our favorite agents while standing in the sideways-foot-prints after the scan. Neither time did they say anything first.

In BOS, I just suddenly felt the invasive and disgusting reality of someone else squeezing my head and neck from the back and heard, "just checking your ponytail". That was so awful (stranger touching me with used gloves - ick!! and no warning - double ick!!) that in ORD on the way back, I took out my hairtie and went through all loose to try to avoid whatever paranoid issues they might have with ponytails.

I faced the other way that time (to watch my bag) and saw an agent approaching with zombie hands outstretched, so I shouted, "stop! if you're going to touch me, please use new gloves"...which she did, admittedly without bad attitude, but also without saying what she was doing - and she proceeded to pat my sides rather intimately and then walk away, presumably satisfied.

Shouldn't they tell me what parts they will touch, give me a chance for the private room, etc.? It was so invasive! This is now the third time I've been groped. I'm feeling like they should offer a ring. But seriously - I just feel totally degraded.

--LG

eta: p.s. when I was groped the first time on a different trip, the agent announced what she was going to touch ahead of each touching.

Sounds like the mind-numbing repetitions of post ATR anomalies to be resolved (false positives) are having an effect on the screeners. I agree... to be groped w/o warning is creepy! Explanations and clean gloves if requested should be mandatory EVERY single time anomalies are resolved by a "hands on" method. If these simple actions "take too much time" due to the high rate of false positives, then stop using the faulty technology as a primary screening method!

Technically you were assaulted as you were touched without permission.

Why go through the scanner if you're going to get groped anyway?

Also, both ORD and BOS use backscatter scanners which, contrary to your opinion, are ionizing radiation machines. You received unnecessary, unregulated doses of ionizing radiation. You were viewed naked. And then you were assaulted.

Sorry about your luck.

That's ridiculous. She never said Stop, don't touch me! So it is not assault.

I get the pat down every time and hate hearing the long "this is what is going to happen" speech but they I insist on giving it every time and they ALWAYS put on fresh gloves right in front of me.

I hate this as much as anyone, wish there was a way around it all, but geez I fly 200+ segments a year, get a patdown every week (twice)and never once had a bad experience with TSA. I know they are doing what they are told to do and if you treat them with respect for their jobs, they will do the same.

That being said, there are many that arson a power trip and many instances of inappropriate behavior and they should be disciplined, but many are just doing their jobs.

Um...no. If someone grabs me from behind, a stranger no less, then it's totally not consensual. (Seriously? Think about what you're implying in a general sense. We weren't on a date with other snuggly stuff happening and then I forgot to say "stop" ;) ... this is more akin to a stranger coming up behind you in an alleyway) You can bet that if I had seen the person coming, I'd have said "stop, don't touch me!"

But @barbell I don't get the hostility. It's not my opinion per se, but my perhaps mistaken education, about what kind of radiation. I'm 100% prepared to believe that it was dangerous and mis-represented to me by the TSA, but I'm sure the guy told me that it was "non-ionizing" (my skepticism was trying to show in the quotation marks).

Anyway, yes, it was a very yucky and disturbing feeling!!

I don't actually think they are "just doing their jobs" - I think that's a cowardly write-off to excuse all kinds of abuses of our civil rights, for no appreciable security gain.

But if they're going to be doing ponytail-gropes, there's totally zero excuse for sneaking up on someone and grabbing them without (1) making eye contact, (2) donning fresh gloves, and (3) asking/telling what you plan to touch. Still assault-like, but then it's at least upfront.

Which leads me to think: do you think they didn't glove/announce/look-me-in-the-eye because they want it to be more powerful and rape-like, and LESS upfront? Triple yuck.

--LG

Incorrect. She gave no indication, in advance of the touching, that she consented. She also had no knowledge of how long the unwanted touching would last. It may have ended by the time she realized what was happening. At that point, "Stop, don't touch me!" would have been useless, right?

(Or, are you suggesting that she should have said "Stop, don't touch me!" even after the unwanted touching ended? "Assault" does not require that the victim do or say a certain something.)

I disagree. It is a requirement of their jobs that they treat us with disrespect.

See above.

No hostility intended. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

My anger is directed at the agency and the abusers who lied to you, not at you.

Thank you!! That's ok. :) Believe me, I think plenty of hostility is merited, just directed at the TSA.

--Leah

You do understand how ridiculous that statement is, don't you? That gives every man in America a "free shot" or grope of a woman anywhere any time. One free feel before they utter an objection.

Fortunately, the legal statutes on this are not written that way. Clerks who touch you this way are opening themselves up to charges and lawsuits.

Citation for this?

"Just doing what they're told" ceased to be a valid defense at Nuremberg.

And why should I treat someone with "respect" for doing a useless, pointless, and invasive "job" simply because a bunch of sheep believe that the agency is doing something useful and necessary? I respect neither the "job" nor anyone willing to actually do it, let alone be proud of it.

Think about this. If I came up behind you on the sidewalk and grabbed you <anatomy>, is it ok because you didn't tell me to stop or bad because you didn't give permission?

+1

I've had my hair checked before, but rather than touching me, they had me lift up my ponytail. Sorry your TSA agents weren't as courteous.