Go Back   > > >
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 5, 12, 11:18 am   #16
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Pax: (screams, throws beverage) Help! Help! My drink is poisoned! Starbucks has explosives in their coffee! Help! I want my money back!
The passenger would be arrested for interfering with the screening process (or for burning the TSO thug, if it was a hot drink) and would have a starring role in the "People Say the Darndest Things" section of the weekly TSA blog police log.

On a serious note, how should one fight back against this disgusting make-work scheme, that will not get a LEO summoned?
saulblum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 11:28 am   #17
  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulblum View Post
On a serious note, how should one fight back against this disgusting make-work scheme, that will not get a LEO summoned?
Say no, finish the drink and explain (slowly) to whoever is summoned that since you're not dead/dying and they are welcome to test[sic] the empty cup ("it's in the trash, over there"), that you have satisfied their request.

Really, just say NO.
Wally Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 11:30 am   #18
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Say no, finish the drink and explain (slowly) to whoever is summoned that since you're not dead/dying and they are welcome to test[sic] the empty cup ("it's in the trash, over there"), that you have satisfied their request.

Really, just say NO.
I should have clarified my question to add, "while keeping the beverage you intended to drink during the flight."
saulblum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 11:40 am   #19
  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, FB Plat, AS Gold, Marriott Gold, Fairmont Plat, BA wannabe
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
And one of the most entertaining comment threads ever.
Over 1500 comments and counting!!!
fishferbrains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 11:44 am   #20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 25,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by saulblum View Post
The passenger would be arrested for interfering with the screening process (or for burning the TSO thug, if it was a hot drink) and would have a starring role in the "People Say the Darndest Things" section of the weekly TSA blog police log.

On a serious note, how should one fight back against this disgusting make-work scheme, that will not get a LEO summoned?
Hand over the drink, obviously (assuming you really are at the gate because you want to fly..).

Hand it over, and as you do so, immediately stand up, gather your things and put some distance between you and the screener (just to be safe). Communicate. Make it clear that you are not happy that you just forked over $ to a vendor who sold you suspect goods. Make it clear that you intend to ask for a refund. Make it clear that you don't understand why the beverages sold in the sterile area are not screened at point of sale for the pax safety. Make it clear that you don't understand why you jump through hoops to enter the sterile area, but clearly the vendors and their wares are not screened. Ask if the testing is the result of particular intel or if it's just a new level of security implemented to cover up the fact that the vendors and their wares are a gaping security hole.

Above all, do not try to disguise your terror at being at risk of consuming a potentially harmful beverage (if it can damage a plane, think what it can do to your insides). Do not try to disguise your fright at realizing that the sterile area is anything but and that you are still highly at risk. Express your concern that there might be razor blades or other contraband in the paperback you just purchased at a sterile-side vendor.

Do not take the beverage back when they are through. If you are told to hold it, don't. For your own safety, place it on the floor and distance yourself, preferably hiding slightly behind another TSO in the immediate area. Make it clear that even after it has been 'tested' and deemed 'safe', you still don't trust the beverage, the testing, or the entire situation that puts a pax in the sterile area at risk from a vendor purchase. Make it clear that you are heading directly to the vendor for a refund - ask the TSO if he/she will accompany you.

Take it seriously. Very seriously. Out of an abundance of caution. Because you really do want to fly. Because they're doing this is a tacit admission that the other 21 layers of security aren't enough.
chollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 12:25 pm   #21
  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally Bird View Post
Say no, finish the drink and explain (slowly) to whoever is summoned that since you're not dead/dying and they are welcome to test[sic] the empty cup ("it's in the trash, over there"), that you have satisfied their request.

Really, just say NO.
Yep... this is the only correct response. For all types of reasons.

If they 'push back' on that answer? I chug the drink - too much too drink? It oops (sorry about that) spills - If I feel that either of these will get me into trouble? I just plain ignore them - not too much of a stretch when I'm jet lagged to act like a total zombie. But? No matter how I do it? Nobody - not even with their stupid silly magic strips - is chemically testing a drink that I then continue to drink. Not happening

There was once a land of the brave and the free - whatever happened to that fabled land?
Darkumbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 12:39 pm   #22
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkumbra View Post
There was once a land of the brave and the free - whatever happened to that fabled land?
I hear that it was celebrated mourned last night with fireworks in cities and towns across the land.
saulblum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 2:14 pm   #23
  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Under the Cone of Silence
Programs: UA Gold; AA Gold; HH Diamond; National EE; CONTROL SecretAgent Platinum; KAOS EvilFlyer Gold
Posts: 1,048
Seems TSA's expecting a little heat over this, they've already made a blog entry defending the practice.

I posted a comment asking if we're required to comply with the test, and what are the consequences of refusing.
Maxwell Smart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 2:16 pm   #24
nrr
  
Join Date: Jul 2003
Programs: AA Executive Platinum; 2MM AA
Posts: 7,828
"You" or "I" carry little weight in dealing with TSA's inanities--but if the ultimate result of this TSA policy is that Starbucks (or another vendor) will lose money as people will stop buying drinks from them, that vendor may carry a little more clout, in getting this policy rescinded.
nrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 2:18 pm   #25
  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LGA, JFK
Posts: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Hand over the drink, obviously (assuming you really are at the gate because you want to fly..).

Hand it over, and as you do so, immediately stand up, gather your things and put some distance between you and the screener (just to be safe). Communicate. Make it clear that you are not happy that you just forked over $ to a vendor who sold you suspect goods. Make it clear that you intend to ask for a refund. Make it clear that you don't understand why the beverages sold in the sterile area are not screened at point of sale for the pax safety. Make it clear that you don't understand why you jump through hoops to enter the sterile area, but clearly the vendors and their wares are not screened. Ask if the testing is the result of particular intel or if it's just a new level of security implemented to cover up the fact that the vendors and their wares are a gaping security hole.

Above all, do not try to disguise your terror at being at risk of consuming a potentially harmful beverage (if it can damage a plane, think what it can do to your insides). Do not try to disguise your fright at realizing that the sterile area is anything but and that you are still highly at risk. Express your concern that there might be razor blades or other contraband in the paperback you just purchased at a sterile-side vendor.

Do not take the beverage back when they are through. If you are told to hold it, don't. For your own safety, place it on the floor and distance yourself, preferably hiding slightly behind another TSO in the immediate area. Make it clear that even after it has been 'tested' and deemed 'safe', you still don't trust the beverage, the testing, or the entire situation that puts a pax in the sterile area at risk from a vendor purchase. Make it clear that you are heading directly to the vendor for a refund - ask the TSO if he/she will accompany you.

Take it seriously. Very seriously. Out of an abundance of caution. Because you really do want to fly. Because they're doing this is a tacit admission that the other 21 layers of security aren't enough.
This is great. (Except, I wouldn't give them any ideas about dangerous paperback books. Let them figure that one out themselves!)
GaryD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 2:27 pm   #26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 11,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart View Post
Seems TSA's expecting a little heat over this, they've already made a blog entry defending the practice.
That's because Spokesholess Lisa's entry about the PreCheck Ponsi went over so well.
FliesWay2Much is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 2:53 pm   #27
TBD
  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philly
Programs: All the programs
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingUnderTheRadar View Post
Refuse and ask the TSA for this sheet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_safety_data_sheet
Interesting thought. Are the test strips hazardous?
TBD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 3:12 pm   #28
  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
My two cents on the blog post.

Quote:
>> So other than possibly taking a few
>> moments of your time before boarding
>> your flight, it's business as usual.

If by "business as usual", you mean tactics with little grounding in scientific theory, I concur wholeheartedly.

Mr. Burns, do you ever stop and think about what you write, or are you like a parrot (with all due respect to those highly intelligent creatures) who merely mimics what he is told?

Now let's actually think for a bit ...

Suppose Mr. Terrorist did manage to smuggle his liquid explosives past your hawk-eyed screeners at the checkpoint. Why would he be holding the container at the gate, pretending to drink the "beverage"? It would be hidden away in his bags, of course.

Now since large liquid-filled drinking bottles are banned from the checkpoint, there are two possible sources for any beverage a passenger is drinking at the gate:

* The passenger has filled his empty bottle with water from the water fountain. A positive result from a test on such a drink would indicate some major issues with the municipal drinking supply, and an immediate call for all residents of the city to stop drinking tap water would inevitably need to be issued at once.

* A passenger has bought a drink from an airport vendor. These vendors -- Starbucks, Hudson News, etc. -- typically supply airports nationwide. A positive result from a test on such a beverage should necessarily lead to an immediate grounding of all the nation's planes, for it would indicate a plot involving a nationwide supplier of airport concessions.

That neither of these actions would come from a positive test result shows that these random tests are a sham.

They only benefit two classes of people: TSOs, for providing more work beyond staffing checkpoints; and vendors such as Smiths Detection, whose lobbyists have successfully convinced your bosses that without their equipment, planes would be falling daily from the skies.

I realize, Bob, that it is clear that you do not have the thinking capacity to understand any of this. Unfortunately, it is quite clear that no one at the TSA or DHS does either.
saulblum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 3:44 pm   #29
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,737
I believe they are looking for a solution with a high content of H2O2. I suppose the theory is that if the content of H2O2 in the solution is high enough to use the synthesize explosives, the vapors will be sufficient to cause the strip to test positive. I could be way off, but that's my understanding of what this is about. I decline to defend the wisdom of the practice, however.
Ari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 5, 12, 5:26 pm   #30
  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: AA, UA, Marriott Gold
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I believe they are looking for a solution with a high content of H2O2. I suppose the theory is that if the content of H2O2 in the solution is high enough to use the synthesize explosives, the vapors will be sufficient to cause the strip to test positive. I could be way off, but that's my understanding of what this is about. I decline to defend the wisdom of the practice, however.
I believe you are correct, however others with far greater knowledge than my own have affirmed there is no method for detecting H202 without physical contact (i.e. submersion vs vapors).
FearFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Thread Tools
Search Thread
Go to Top
Forum Jump
Contact Us - FlyerTalk - Archive - Top