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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Search Checked Bags After Finding Knife (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1345757-search-checked-bags-after-finding-knife.html)

TriumphSprint May 13, 2012 9:20 pm

In answer to some of the questions:

I am mostly concerned about the long term ramifications of this incident. I offer training part time and need to get where I am suppose to be. If I am on a list I can plan on it but would like to know.

They definitely know who I am if I wanted to. There was a box near the checkpoint that had mailers. The 3-striper said that if I fill the form out I could mail it back to myself. The mailed needed my name, address, and credit cart number.

What I found embarrassing about this is that (1) I have been flying for 30 years on business and this is my first goof like this, and (2) I had opted out like I always do as a protest about their policies.

Pesky Monkey May 13, 2012 9:22 pm


Originally Posted by TriumphSprint (Post 18569215)
In answer to some of the questions:

I am mostly concerned about the long term ramifications of this incident. I offer training part time and need to get where I am suppose to be. If I am on a list I can plan on it but would like to know.

They definitely know who I am if I wanted to. There was a box near the checkpoint that had mailers. The 3-striper said that if I fill the form out I could mail it back to myself. The mailed needed my name, address, and credit cart number.

What I found embarrassing about this is that (1) I have been flying for 30 years on business and this is my first goof like this, and (2) I had opted out like I always do as a protest about their policies.

You need to sit back and take a chill pill. You're not in trouble. When you get arrested and go to court, you can freak out.

InkUnderNails May 13, 2012 9:30 pm

Go to the post office and get a prepaid flat rate priority mail envelope, about $5. Pre-address it to yourself. Put it somewhere in your carry on as it takes almost zero room. If you accidentally forget something, pull out the envelope, drop it in and ask if they can mail it or if you need to go back to the ticket counter. If necessary, wadded up USA Today makes good packing material.

Not recommended for snow globes but works great for pocket knives and multi-tools.

ScatterX May 14, 2012 9:09 am


Originally Posted by TriumphSprint (Post 18569215)
I am mostly concerned about the long term ramifications of this incident. I offer training part time and need to get where I am suppose to be. If I am on a list I can plan on it but would like to know.

As Mr. Monkey said, you shouldn't be worried about this. At the worst, TSA has a record of you in case you do something bad in the future (or become a habitual knife smuggler). TSA can't afford the effort or the bad PR to worry about people with knives; it's just not practical (or warranted). Forgetting a knife has happened to dozens of people I know personally without any issues.

If that's not good enough to comfort you, realize that the TSA is simply too inept to figure out how to inspect you or your checked bags any differently than the next guy. Your future with the TSA is just like everyone else (a mixed bag of crap some random D student with an attitude, blue shirt, and fake badge makes dreams up on that particular day.

ScatterX May 14, 2012 9:12 am


Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 18569246)
Go to the post office and get a prepaid flat rate priority mail envelope...

^ Excellent advice. I'd use an alias address though.

If I recall correctly, you carry a lot of tools and presume you've had a few not permitted inside the area. Have you had any issues with TSA "remembering you" on subsequent visits?

Ysitincoach May 14, 2012 10:36 am

Free Tool Day
 
At worst you just gave the TSO a new tool to add to his collection. If there was no report, my guess is the TSO just pocketed it, as I caught one at LGA doing with my 3 7/8" scissors. Karma has a weird way of working out as that TSO was one of many later charged by the Queens DA with grand theft in a similar theft case.

cparekh May 14, 2012 10:50 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 18568251)
OP violated the law.

I don't believe that to be true. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that criminal cases generally require proof of intent. Unless he did something willfully reckless, making a mistake that does not result in harm is not a criminal violation. In addition, the checkpoint is a place where these issues are sorted out. The OP was given the opportunity to mail the item back or take it to be checked in. The item he had was a legal item to carry, just not in the sterile area, which the OP never entered.

Global_Hi_Flyer May 14, 2012 3:37 pm


Originally Posted by cparekh (Post 18572256)
I don't believe that to be true. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that criminal cases generally require proof of intent. Unless he did something willfully reckless, making a mistake that does not result in harm is not a criminal violation. In addition, the checkpoint is a place where these issues are sorted out. The OP was given the opportunity to mail the item back or take it to be checked in. The item he had was a legal item to carry, just not in the sterile area, which the OP never entered.

There's criminal law and administrative law. "willful" for purposes of criminal law is different that "willful" for administrative law. Most Federal agencies define "willful" for administrative law as "failing to take adequate steps to ensure the violation did not occur". By that definition, virtually everything is willful and it's pretty easy to prove.

jkhuggins May 14, 2012 8:28 pm


Originally Posted by cparekh (Post 18572256)
I don't believe that to be true. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that criminal cases generally require proof of intent. Unless he did something willfully reckless, making a mistake that does not result in harm is not a criminal violation.

I am not a lawyer either ... but even I can come up with examples of crimes where intent plays no part. Possession of illegal drugs. Possession of child pornography. Possession of an unlicensed firearm.

But, as others have pointed out, not every crime is prosecuted.

cparekh May 15, 2012 9:03 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 18576130)
I am not a lawyer either ... but even I can come up with examples of crimes where intent plays no part. Possession of illegal drugs. Possession of child pornography. Possession of an unlicensed firearm.

My understanding is that possession is the crime. If the state can prove you intended to possess the illegal materials, you have committed a crime. Possession would not be a crime, for example, in the case where someone stashed those materials in your possession unknowingly, since you had no intent to possess it.

The only examples I know of the difference are ones in which I work: money laundering, insider trading, and securities fraud. In these cases the DOJ pursues cases criminally and must prove intent, which is much more difficult, while the SEC pursues the case civilly, no intent needed, but no jail time either.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt, I likely learned half of it from Law & Order, and I certainly don't know the ramifications of how it plays out at the checkpoint, where a lot of law has not been defined.

studentff May 16, 2012 12:00 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 18568879)
1. TSA Officers are not law enforcement officers (LEO's) in general. They, just like other civilian inspection types such as the inspection staff for CBP, may temporarily detain an individual pending the arrival of a LEO (which is why DHS requires a LEO at each checkpoint).

Maybe, but since they have no legal power to physically detain you, there's nothing to prevent a passenger from walking away at any point during the process. Unlikely to happen much in practice because doing so would involve the passenger abandoning his stuff, but still possible. In such a case, all TSA could do was try to body block the passenger from leaving (which has been reported as happening and is likely illegal detention), or give chase.

As for the OP, I seriously doubt the TSA apparatus is smart enough to copy down your name/address info from the mailer or subtle enough to take a copy of your ID without you noticing it, so you probably are in the clear.


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