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-   -   TSA "Drill" at AUS this AM (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1343630-tsa-drill-aus-am.html)

ScatterX May 8, 2012 5:30 am

AUS is a particularly weird place. Often normal and efficient, often a revenge of the mall cop nightmare. Maybe they have an idiocy wheel they spin to see which theatrical performance to put on each day.


Originally Posted by mreed911 (Post 18531415)
...the APD officer was professional, but clearly worked *for* the TSA and not the other way around...

No doubt about that. I asked an APD officer, who was supporting a rather stupid thing a clerk was doing, if they worked for TSA. He said no, but couldn't resist mumbling a subtle comment that TSA could blackball officers that didn't walk in lockstep. He seemed to be making the point that some officers liked (or had to have) these 'cake' assignments. Some should lay off the cake (or the Salt Lick BBQ taco bar). :D

It would be nice if somebody investigated the influx of $$$ from the feds to local law enforcement. I'm sure there's a reason they so willingly go along with this silliness. I doubt it's a good reason.

InkUnderNails May 8, 2012 5:38 am


Originally Posted by ScatterX (Post 18534258)
AUS is a particularly weird place. Often normal and efficient, often a revenge of the mall cop nightmare. Maybe they have an idiocy wheel they spin to see which theatrical performance to put on each day.



No doubt about that. I asked an APD officer, who was supporting a rather stupid thing a clerk was doing, if they worked for TSA. He said no, but couldn't resist mumbling a subtle comment that TSA could blackball officers that didn't walk in lockstep. He seemed to be making the point that some officers liked (or had to have) these 'cake' assignments. Some should lay off the cake (or the Salt Lick BBQ taco bar). :D

It would be nice if somebody investigated the influx of $$$ from the feds to local law enforcement. I'm sure there's a reason they so willingly go along with this silliness. I doubt it's a good reason.

It could be as simple as the fact that they see each other every day and build relationships. They may not even like each other, but they have to work together every day. They see us as random events. That can afford to be wrong with us as we will be gone in just a bit and things will be back to normal. Take up for a PAX instead of a TSO and they will be reminded of it daily.

cottonmather0 May 8, 2012 5:48 am


Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 18534287)
It could be as simple as the fact that they see each other every day and build relationships. They may not even like each other, but they have to work together every day. They see us as random events. That can afford to be wrong with us as we will be gone in just a bit and things will be back to normal. Take up for a PAX instead of a TSO and they will be reminded of it daily.

This is a good point... and taken a step further, it's an argument for federalism and against federalized security.

Ultimately, the LEO is technically in charge, but since the airport (and municipality) is subordinate to the federal government for $$$ and cannot change or affect how TSA operates there, they end up being held hostage to whatever TSA wants and are forced to go along to get along... which means disregarding their fidelity to the law (which includes basic civil liberties) so that TSA doesn't make everyone's life miserable.

So the answer should be to either federalize the law enforcement and the whole airport (which no one wants to see... and would be nigh impossible politically) or localize (privatize) security responsibilities and fire them when they are discordant with the law-enforcement standards of the local government.

As it is, the cops cannot ultimately be in charge and TSA is unaccountable.... and the passengers suffer for it.

mreed911 May 8, 2012 8:12 pm


Originally Posted by cottonmather0 (Post 18534324)
This is a good point... and taken a step further, it's an argument for federalism and against federalized security.

Ultimately, the LEO is technically in charge, but since the airport (and municipality) is subordinate to the federal government for $$$ and cannot change or affect how TSA operates there, they end up being held hostage to whatever TSA wants and are forced to go along to get along... which means disregarding their fidelity to the law (which includes basic civil liberties) so that TSA doesn't make everyone's life miserable.

So the answer should be to either federalize the law enforcement and the whole airport (which no one wants to see... and would be nigh impossible politically) or localize (privatize) security responsibilities and fire them when they are discordant with the law-enforcement standards of the local government.

As it is, the cops cannot ultimately be in charge and TSA is unaccountable.... and the passengers suffer for it.

Made even worse by the fact that Austin has a city ordinance that makes it a Class C Misdemeanor to "interfere with" the TSA. When I'm not on a plane I'll probably publish a blog post about this. Way too broad... but my response was "I won't interfere, but I won't comply, either, because he's wrong. I'll wait for a supervisor.". APD's statement was that should I choose to interfere I could far the posssibility of arrest or citation. The officer was careful to specify BOTH, indicating arrest wasn't the only option... which I appreciated because I could stress to him I wasn't looking to be arrested in protest, etc., but that I wouldn't comply with incorrect instructions. The ordinance, however, IS ripe for a fight.

janetdoe May 8, 2012 11:44 pm


Originally Posted by mreed911 (Post 18531415)
It is rather odd that given a pretend explosive device that TSA would stop people in the open and not direct them to cover. I would like to see it again, if only to ask clearly and plainly "is there a bomb? Should I take cover?"

Yes, I think loudly inquiring as to the source of the danger is extremely appropriate. Considering that the easiest way to kill a few hundred people is probably a crowded checkpoint... I don't think TSA should be hiding this information.

WillCAD May 10, 2012 6:19 am

I think a lot of people are overthinking things in looking for alterior motives for local LEOs backing up TSA. The average street - or, in this case, airport - cop has no conception of federal money being funneled into local LEO agencies, and is not aware or cares little for the politics of the whole TSA/local airport authority thing.

This is all about attitude.

There are several prevalent attitudes that can be found amongst cops, nationwide, which contribute to this problem:

1) RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!
Some cops simply have a chip on their shoulder. They are bullies, and during training they are taught how to control the situation at all times, using the same techniques of threats, intimidation, and coercion that bullies use to steal your lunch money in junior high school. When challenged, they become irate, and since they actually have legal authority, they will use it. And you lose, always.

2) Brotherhood of Blue
Even when my Brothers are wrong, they're still my Brothers, and I'll back them up over some snarky businessman or outraged mommy, because I hold them in contempt but revere my Brothers. Of course, not all cops see TSA as being part of the Brotherhood. In fact, some see TSA as wannabes, similar to mall security guards, and hold them in such contempt that they will side with travelers over TSA. So sometimes the Brotherhood can work in our favor.

3) ANYTHING FOR SECURITY! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11!
This is the most common attitude in America today. We're a nation of paranoid cowards who see the Evil Brown Terr'ist lurking around every corner (right next to the Evil Random Kidnapping Pedophile). It is simply accepted as truth that danger of death surrounds air travel, and that The Terr'ists are obsessed with air travel as a target, and that America is their greates and most hated enemy. Thus, ANY measure, no matter how extreme, abusive, or un-Constitutional, that someone claims will keep us "safe" from the Evil Ones, is accepted without question. Cops are no exception to this - a cop with an AFS attitude will care not one bit about the Consitution, he will believe that he's onthe front lines of the War on Terror and is a hero who saves people's lives by backing up TSA.

4) Everyone is guilty until proven innocent. And even then, they're guilty of something.
Cops like this see all of society as their enemy. It's Us vs. Them - and anyone without a badge is Them. Simply put, they're law enforcement fanatics who believe that the ends justify the means.

Fortunately, not all cops have these attitudes. But these attitudes are very common, and if you meet a cop who has one of them, there isn't much you can do aside from meek acceptance and complete compliance - unless you want to be arrested.

InkUnderNails May 10, 2012 9:08 am

[Self moderation instituted.]

studentff May 10, 2012 9:27 am


Originally Posted by mreed911 (Post 18531415)

It is rather odd that given a pretend explosive device that TSA would stop people in the open and not direct them to cover. I would like to see it again, if only to ask clearly and plainly "is there a bomb? Should I take cover?"

Though I'd modify the statement to avoid the "b" word, I think that's an excellent idea. Maybe something like "is there an emergency? Should we evacuate?" Stated very loudly, as long as you and anyone you care about are in a position where the likely stampede won't cause you harm.

I'd love to see TSOs held liable for creating a panic during one of their drills. I don't really see much difference between these public drills and "yelling fire in a crowded theater."

As an aside, remember that a lot of people in the 2nd tower died on 9/11 because they listened to authorities who told them to stay in their offices, stay calm, and not evacuate. You and only you care about your individual safety (as opposed to the public safety). And hanging out near an incident doesn't really seem like a good idea from an individual's standpoint.

jtodd May 10, 2012 9:38 am


Originally Posted by studentff (Post 18549361)
Though I'd modify the statement to avoid the "b" word, I think that's an excellent idea. Maybe something like "is there an emergency? Should we evacuate?" Stated very loudly, as long as you and anyone you care about are in a position where the likely stampede won't cause you harm.

I'd love to see TSOs held liable for creating a panic during one of their drills. I don't really see much difference between these public drills and "yelling fire in a crowded theater."

As an aside, remember that a lot of people in the 2nd tower died on 9/11 because they listened to authorities who told them to stay in their offices, stay calm, and not evacuate. You and only you care about your individual safety (as opposed to the public safety). And hanging out near an incident doesn't really seem like a good idea from an individual's standpoint.

^


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