Congress Set To Revoke Passports For IRS Tax Debt
#361
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,078
There are almost always choices what what and how to implement something. The IRS can, for example, bankrupt a company instantly when they, say, fail to pay tax on time. Or, they could work with them to resolve the issue over time and let the company trade it's way back into compliance. The decision as to which path the IRS follows is a policy decision, not a legal decision. (Or, in the case of the US, it's a political & lobbying decision, rather than a legal decision)
#362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,083
You've clearly never worked in government at a high level.
There are almost always choices what what and how to implement something. The IRS can, for example, bankrupt a company instantly when they, say, fail to pay tax on time. Or, they could work with them to resolve the issue over time and let the company trade it's way back into compliance. The decision as to which path the IRS follows is a policy decision, not a legal decision. (Or, in the case of the US, it's a political & lobbying decision, rather than a legal decision)
There are almost always choices what what and how to implement something. The IRS can, for example, bankrupt a company instantly when they, say, fail to pay tax on time. Or, they could work with them to resolve the issue over time and let the company trade it's way back into compliance. The decision as to which path the IRS follows is a policy decision, not a legal decision. (Or, in the case of the US, it's a political & lobbying decision, rather than a legal decision)
#363
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Personally, I couldn’t in good conscience work in a governmental capacity that chooses to deny free US citizens the right to acquire/retain US passports the same as everyone else but allows them to still roam free in America like the rest of us.
#364
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,505
#365
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
#366
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
#367
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
In order to implement this, the government wants tax returns and related information for impacted persons to be made available to government contractors hired by the government to put this law into place. As of now, that’s still illegal. Speaking of illegal or not, let’s see how long it is until the privacy of those subjected US citizens gets trampled upon by a leak of this tax data.
#368
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,103
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/...debt/23476319/
Excerpt:
"An IRS spokesman told the Journal that as many as 362,000 people currently hold a tax debt that would make them ineligible for renewal or issuance of passports. The agency is in the process of sending their names to the State Department, which officials hope to have finished by the end of the year. A State Department official confirmed to the Journal that the agency has already denied passports to people who hold tax debts. Additionally, IRS Division Commissioner Mary Beth Murphy told the Journal late last month that, for now, U.S. authorities are only denying passports, rather than revoking them from people who hold debts. This means current passport holders with debt of $51,000 or more will be able to travel abroad but will not be able to renew their passports, and those with debt without passports will be denied if they apply for new ones."
Excerpt:
"An IRS spokesman told the Journal that as many as 362,000 people currently hold a tax debt that would make them ineligible for renewal or issuance of passports. The agency is in the process of sending their names to the State Department, which officials hope to have finished by the end of the year. A State Department official confirmed to the Journal that the agency has already denied passports to people who hold tax debts. Additionally, IRS Division Commissioner Mary Beth Murphy told the Journal late last month that, for now, U.S. authorities are only denying passports, rather than revoking them from people who hold debts. This means current passport holders with debt of $51,000 or more will be able to travel abroad but will not be able to renew their passports, and those with debt without passports will be denied if they apply for new ones."
#369
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/...debt/23476319/
Excerpt:
"An IRS spokesman told the Journal that as many as 362,000 people currently hold a tax debt that would make them ineligible for renewal or issuance of passports. The agency is in the process of sending their names to the State Department, which officials hope to have finished by the end of the year. A State Department official confirmed to the Journal that the agency has already denied passports to people who hold tax debts. Additionally, IRS Division Commissioner Mary Beth Murphy told the Journal late last month that, for now, U.S. authorities are only denying passports, rather than revoking them from people who hold debts. This means current passport holders with debt of $51,000 or more will be able to travel abroad but will not be able to renew their passports, and those with debt without passports will be denied if they apply for new ones."
Excerpt:
"An IRS spokesman told the Journal that as many as 362,000 people currently hold a tax debt that would make them ineligible for renewal or issuance of passports. The agency is in the process of sending their names to the State Department, which officials hope to have finished by the end of the year. A State Department official confirmed to the Journal that the agency has already denied passports to people who hold tax debts. Additionally, IRS Division Commissioner Mary Beth Murphy told the Journal late last month that, for now, U.S. authorities are only denying passports, rather than revoking them from people who hold debts. This means current passport holders with debt of $51,000 or more will be able to travel abroad but will not be able to renew their passports, and those with debt without passports will be denied if they apply for new ones."
Keep in mind that even before the FAST Act, US passports could be denied to some people who hold tax debts. It’s just that FAST will have substantially expanded the pool of US citizens who will be denied a US passport.
#370
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,083
An update on this matter. IRS seems to be stepping enforcement action up.
If you owe the IRS back taxes, you may lose your passport
If you owe the IRS back taxes, you may lose your passport
The enforcement effort, which began in February 2018 for debts of $51,000 and higher, has thus far covered applications for new or renewed passports. (The higher threshold of $52,000 for 2019 reflects an annual adjustment for inflation, although the IRS could not confirm.)
Now, the IRS will actively begin referring unresolved cases to the State Department for potential revocation, IRS spokeswoman Cecilia Barreda told CNBC.
Now, the IRS will actively begin referring unresolved cases to the State Department for potential revocation, IRS spokeswoman Cecilia Barreda told CNBC.
#371
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The IRS spokesperson said “potential revocation”. It’s only potential because it can’t happen unless and until State can do so — and State will only be able to do so under limited circumstances even for those who are already subject to not being able to get a new/renewal passport application fulfilled due to the law that led to passport denial for US citizens with such tax problems.
This could change, and repeatedly at that, but it’s a question of how and how soon.
FAST isn’t generating as much money for the UST from US passport denial as was used an excuse to put it in FAST. Can’t say I’m surprised.
This could change, and repeatedly at that, but it’s a question of how and how soon.
FAST isn’t generating as much money for the UST from US passport denial as was used an excuse to put it in FAST. Can’t say I’m surprised.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 15, 2019 at 5:19 am
#372
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,162
The IRS spokesperson said “potential revocation”. It’s only potential because it can’t happen unless and until State can do so — and State will only be able to do so under limited circumstances even for those who are already subject to not being able to get a new/renewal passport application fulfilled due to the law that led to passport denial for US citizens with such tax problems.
This could change, and repeatedly at that, but it’s a question of how and how soon.
FAST isn’t generating as much money for the UST from US passport denial as was used an excuse to put it in FAST. Can’t say I’m surprised.
This could change, and repeatedly at that, but it’s a question of how and how soon.
FAST isn’t generating as much money for the UST from US passport denial as was used an excuse to put it in FAST. Can’t say I’m surprised.
#373
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,103
FWIW - given the revolving door at State, this might not happen but if the grunts are there to follow policy then perhaps it could.
Cheers.
#374
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
But from the article it sounds like they might push State to do it. If State complies then many folk affected. Are you ok w/ that? Just curious.
FWIW - given the revolving door at State, this might not happen but if the grunts are there to follow policy then perhaps it could.
Cheers.
FWIW - given the revolving door at State, this might not happen but if the grunts are there to follow policy then perhaps it could.
Cheers.
Here’s the background to why the IRS wants State to do revocations more broadly for SDTDs:
A substantial proportion of people who are subject to passport denial due to SDTD under the FAST Act have entered into agreements/relationships/understandings with the IRS after getting the initial notice of certification and/or after being hit by a new/renewal passport application denial. They then quickly get the passport application fulfilled and end up having the new passport in hand with a validity of up to ten years. Guess what happens soon thereafter to many such individuals with a rather new US passport? They often end up getting another FAST Act-related SDTD notice of certification for not delivering as the IRS wanted, but since they already have a passport that can’t so easily be revoked. Given these IRS/UST certifications are mostly hitting people eligible for ten year US passports, the IRS doesn’t want to be stuck having lost the utility of the FAST Act-related threats for as long as nearly 9-10 years when it comes to collections. Keep in mind that the statute of limitations for some of these claimed tax debts against FAST Act-targets won’t be tolled and would most likely become unenforceable by the IRS by the time (or a bit after) the passport expires.
The UST/IRS wants State to revoke issued US passports for not only those who get re-certified with SDTDs but also revoked for those whom the IRS believe to have international income and/or assets — however modest — that the UST/IRS believes should be made available to it as a factor in reconsidering SDTD-related certification. But a large proportion of the second targets of this next wave of effort by the IRS are dual-citizens and so can still use their non-US passports to travel internationally while also still being able to legally enter and exit the US too. All of this just is part of the picture of how the passport-related provisions of the FAST Act have failed to collect as much money as its proponents believed would happen.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 19, 2019 at 11:11 am
#375
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-...-colo-irc-7345
covers a recent case that has said that passport denial/revocation for tax delinquency reasons is not unconstitutional.
The IRS has said that implementation of the FAST Act provision against passports for SDTDs has resulted in raising way more money than was initially expected.
covers a recent case that has said that passport denial/revocation for tax delinquency reasons is not unconstitutional.
The IRS has said that implementation of the FAST Act provision against passports for SDTDs has resulted in raising way more money than was initially expected.