(First post) I see the outcry of the TSA everywhere online, but not at the airport?
 

I'm a semi-frequent flier, I've had about 16 flights since the TSA started using the backscatter machines. I'd guess that on about 12 of those flights, I've been chosen and opted out every time.

And I seem to be the only one who ever does. Actually I take that back, at Ft. Lauderdale last week, I started a trend when people were asking why I was standing to the side. After they saw me do it, they started to. But that's it. I've never seen anyone else opt out.

Why is it that you'll see people complain endlessly online about the TSA, how they violate your rights, and how they should be abolished, but then you see no one taking that stand at the airport? Are all of the people complaining those who never actually fly anywhere?

And quite frankly, I'm just sick of it. I know it's old news to talk about how it feels violating, but that still doesn't make it less traumatic every time you have to go through it.

Welcome to Flyer Talk!

And thank you for exercising your right to opt out. I don’t work with the devices personally, so I don’t run across the issue very often, but opting out of any of the technological devices that the TSA uses for screening allows me more time to get to know the passengers and to give them the best impression of TSA that I can. Despite what others here will say about my opinions and other comments here on FT, working with the passengers is the most enjoyable part of my job. I think it’s important for a passenger to see only friendly and helpful people at the checkpoint at 5am, or 8pm for that matter.

The reasons are as various as there are passengers. Many don’t want to take the extra time that opting out requires. Many see what TSA does as necessary and professionally competent. Very few are the folks like what you encounter here at FT’s TS/S.

I have actually met a member of FT’s TS/S at my own airport, although they never knew about it. So I know they fly, and most claim to be frequent flyers and I have no reason to doubt that. The problem is that this is a very small community, and those who opt out are a very small percentage (far less than 1%) of the passengers we process every day. So I’m sure that everyone here that has concerns with the TSA and its policies and technologies does what they can to protest them. But it’s a numbers game. Of the 1.8 million passengers we interact with every day, maybe 8,000 people across 450 airports opt out (total guess on my part, I have no figures to support that, but it seems reasonable) of the advanced technology screening. Again, each has their own reason. Honestly, you couldn’t get 8,000 people to whistle Dixie at the same time, much less stage sit-in’s or as the recent National Opt Out day showed, opt out together.

Whether you are “traumatized” by screening or not is entirely up to you. TSA has no part in that decision or feeling. The vast majority of flyers choose not to be “traumatized” by screening, others feel the need. To each his own in my opinion. There is always the option of not going to the TSA checkpoint at all. If going to the airport and choosing to submit yourself for screening traumatizes you then you might want to make a different choice from now on. It won’t hurt my feelings, honest. ^

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

There are many plausible answers.

As you suggested, some folks take action on their displeasure with TSA by not flying at all. Others choose not to complain at the checkpoint because, frankly, complaining at the checkpoint doesn't do anything to change the system; those following TSA's procedures at the checkpoint don't have the authority to change them. Still others don't complain because they're choosing between two undesirable alternatives, and picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make the choice any less evil.

The flip side to the people complaining online are the many more people NOT complaining, and who truly seem to believe that TSA is providing effective security. Visit a Disney message board (well, not Mouseowners.com - the owners of that website could be TS&S posters, but other big ones, especially the really big one) or family travel sites, or leisure travel sites. There are many supporters waving a big flag about how TSA is far better than security anywhere else in the world. (And many of those people have not been outside the US)

And to be frank, there are some people (including about half a dozen I can think of on FT) who have turned those on the fence away from the anti-TSA discussion due to their posting style. Some people are not really helping the cause, but rather making it appear to be a fringe group of lunatics jumping on the cause of the week.

I've always disliked that 'I'm not responsible for your feelings - you are' argument. It gives people an opportunity to deny responsibility when they have been doing something wrong, and push the blame onto others for the outcome.

I'm not trying to pick any sort of fight here, but this quote...

...and later this quote:

...completely contradict each other.

People don't choose what traumatizes them, it's a make-up of their own body chemistry and the experiences they've had up to a certain point. Would you tell a rape survivor or a war veteran that what traumatizes them is entirely in their head? Would you tell that same thing to someone who is clinically depressed or has OCD, that's all up to them? That comes across as completely ignorant and offensive at the same time.

That last quote where you basically say "If you don't like it, don't travel," also has implications that while I don't think you intended, still come up. It says "Don't travel to see your family 2,000 miles away. Don't travel to see your friends. Never take a vacation anywhere you can't drive or take the train to"

Obviously, you don't represent all TSO's, but hearing this just makes me... sad. And worried that other TSO's who have to work with people don't have a fundamental understanding of people.

Welcome to FT, dougie. When I joined many years ago (after lurking for years), I didn't have a strong anti-TSA sentiment. I was bothered by a few things, and took the time to read TS&S in 2010. Like you, my opinions were changed based on what I read here from some of the people representing TSA. There are a few who I see as wanting to engage positively with readers, but my opinion of TSA as an organisation was strongly influenced by what I read here on TS&S from representatives of that organisation, combined with what I witnessed in person on a regular basis.

I get that. I see people compare TSO's to child molesters, rapists, and mafia goons and think "hey now, they're not THAT bad"

Personally, I'm just sick of the politics behind it all, the "security theater" that doesn't really protect us more than it did before the TSA, and the fact that on average every eight weeks I have to stand in front of a government-funded agent and have to defend what I feel are basic rights.

I could have written what you just wrote.

I'm frankly tired of the attitude as well of many that because the US has the market on terrorism (the world changed on 9/11, don't you know :rolleyes: ), that they have to do things differently than the rest of the world, and that the security theatre makes on safer than in the rest of the world.

I am especially angry about the waste of purchasing and training for and maintaining the AITs which are proven to be useless and deemed a failure in other countries.

The arrogance of this agency astounds me. Yet common sense and logic seem to be lost, as the millions who agree with them have shown. On some of those websites I mentioned above, any attempt at rational argument devolves into cries of anti-Americanism, or supporting terrorism.

People are scared. Your government has done an excellent job creating an economy around that, and to change it now would result in some significant job loss as well as having to reeducate the general public. The comments I read online really disappoint me; I'm astounded on a daily basis how in general the American public has become so afraid of so much, and doesn't question things anymore.

It's very, very sad.

Welcome to FT! I can't address everyone's reasoning, but I can give you mine. I suspect that many people have reasons similar to my own.

Unlike most on FT, I am not a frequent flier. I only fly about 2 to 4 segments per year. Of course, this doesn't mean I'm not as outraged by TSAs egregious violations of travelers' civil rights as anyone. But I am one of those whom you describe - I complain and vent endlessly online, particularly here on FT where many feel the same way I do, yet I comply when I'm at the checkpoint.

I comply for two reasons: 1) I need to get where I'm going, and 2) I am afraid of my own government.

Non-compliance at the checkpoint would expose me to multiple risks, such as:

* Costly delays
* Punitive secondary screening
* Denial of flight
* Arrest (for trumped up charges, but still...)

Now, there are some lines I won't cross. I won't let them touch me. Fortunately, this has not yet been a problem for me; since I fly so infrequently, and my home airport has the MMW instead of BSX scanners, I have taken the scans instead of opting out. But there is still a possibility that I could be chosen for a random full-body rubdown with genital contact, or a false positive in the AIT could designate me for the rubdown, or I could be chosen for a gate screening with full-body rubdown with genital contact.

I will refuse. I will not let them touch me, I will refuse it at every stage for every reason. If that means I don't fly, then I'll rent a car and drive or figure out some other means of transportation, but I will not let them touch me, period.

There are 382,702 members on Flyertalk, only a small portion of that number is actually posting and active

On any given day there are 240,000 people passing through Atlanta, 183,000 through Chicago, 162,000 through LA, and so on and so on. You get the idea.

The ratio of people who are posting here and other boards complaining about the TSA to the total number of passengers is is probably minuscule. There's also a huge amount of people, far more than the complainers, who believe in anything for airport security.

Not saying one is right or wrong, it's just how it is.

A CBS news poll in the fall of 2010 pretty much sums it up

Should Airports Use Full-Body X-Ray Machines?
Yes 81%
No 15

And if they had asked: Do you mind the potential for increased risk of cancer due to the X-ray exposure?

Would the result have been the same?:rolleyes:

Watch the sheeple who use the NoS. Many that I've observed seem excited about the idea of using such a nice big electronic toy.

Yeah, dougiebgood, thank you and welcome to Flyertalk.

TSORon almost had me on his side for a second. It doesn't take long for the true TSA to eventually leak out.

Welcome to Flyertalk!

My theory is that the number of people who are well-informed about the TSA and willing to complain is very small compared to the total number of fliers. The internet has a way of bringing together like-minded together, so if you hang out of Flyertalk you might think that "everyone" feels the same way about these machines, but it is actually a small number.

I have successfully triggered several additional opt-outs while waiting in screening lines, and at least one frequent flier I spoke to on a plane said he would start opting out after I explained the procedure to him.

On the other hand, there are some under surface movements,

I for one, started to opt out last year (after joining FT!)
and.. IME, can say there are more people opting out compared to last year, although still majority of people do the "hands up!" for the TSA.