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"TSA rail, subway spot-checks raise privacy issues"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/28/travel...hes/index.html
Nothing new, but well summarized in one piece. But the TSA claims "administrative search authority" to conduct random checkpoint searches of passengers and baggage at "surface transportation venues" without probable cause, according to TSA spokeswoman Kimberley Thompson. "... the administrative search does not require probable cause, but must further an important government need, such as preventing would-be terrorists from bringing an explosive device onto a crowded commuter train," Thompson said. The crux of the "administrative search" is that it treats a bomb going off on a train and killing ten passengers as more of a crime and a threat to society as a drunk driver causing a mass pileup or a gunman going on a shooting spree, also killing ten people. I am not a lawyer, but it seems to be that treating terrorism as more of a crime than the numerous other ways someone can be killed completely voids the Fourth Amendment. |
Originally Posted by saulblum
(Post 17903606)
I am not a lawyer, but it seems to be that treating terrorism as more of a crime than the numerous other ways someone can be killed completely voids the Fourth Amendment.
As Amtrak's O'Connor puts it: "You never know where those search scenes are going to show up." Can Americans expect these random teams to show up at the entrance (or exit) to shopping malls, schools, or public parks, to name just a few places? I for one don't want to live in that kind of climate of constant fear. :mad: It's sad - pathetic - to read some of the statements in that piece. :rolleyes: For starters, there's this from a lawyer: As an attorney for the EPA, Vetter is pretty familiar with his Fourth Amendment constitutional right protecting him from "unreasonable searches." "At the airport, everybody now understands it's part of the process," he said. "You can either choose to deal with it or not. But in a surprise situation like that, I would not have been pleased." Few Amtrak passengers have ever refused to be searched, O'Connor said. "We've done thousands of them, and I would say less than a handful of people have chosen to seek other transportation." He sees that as positive and I see it as terribly negative that so few people protest. :( |
My comments --
In 1995 there were deadly bombings in the Paris Metro and a gas attack on the Tokyo subway. In 1994 there was a firebombing of a NY subway car that severely burned several. In 1993 there was a mass shooting on the Long Island Railroad that killed six. This was all in the same time span that included the Oklahoma City bombing and the World Trade Center bombing. To anyone who defends DHS and TSA and VIPR by saying we live in a different world now, I observe the following: For a decade thereafter we managed just fine without any Fourth Amendment-trashing "administrative searches" of train and bus passengers. "TSA officials like to point out that the acronym stands for Transportation Security Administration, not the Airport Security Administration. And that's where VIPR comes in." What makes riding in a train or bus any different than walking down the street in a crowded city? (Ever been to Times Square, or Rockefeller Center around Christmas?) Walking is transportation too. Anyone who defends these federally-subsidized searches should be ashamed to call himself an American. «New Jersey Transit Police Chief Christopher Trucillo, who works regularly with VIPR teams, acknowledged that the search system isn't perfect. Potential attackers carrying explosives who refuse searches are free to simply drive to the next station on the line and board there. "Because of the sheer number of passengers, there's nothing that would prevent you from doing that," Trucillo said. But there also are "things behind the scenes that are not visible to the traveling public that we employ to keep our system safe."» Chief Trucillo, you have just acknowledged that these train bag searches are next to useless. Be a real leader, and turn down the DHS money paying for these searches. |
Originally Posted by saulblum
(Post 17903833)
My comment --
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Originally Posted by Fredd
(Post 17903852)
^ Unfortunately, it's the politicans and agencies such as these that are creating that "different world," or more accurately dystopian world.
Alas, these are not simple "unzip bag and look inside" searches: they are ETD swabs, so there is money to be made by the equipment manufacturers (e.g. Smiths). I remain convinced that there is some heavy lobbying involved here. Just go to Smiths' press releases -- http://www.smithsdetection.com/press_releases.php -- and search for "TSA". 52 matches. |
Originally Posted by saulblum
(Post 17903914)
...I remain convinced that there is some heavy lobbying involved here.
Just go to Smiths' press releases -- http://www.smithsdetection.com/press_releases.php -- and search for "TSA". 52 matches. |
Originally Posted by Fredd
(Post 17903817)
I for one don't want to live in that kind of climate of constant fear.
The only, repeat only, possible way it will change is if the Supreme Court rules that these 'administrative' searches are unConstitutional. Which is as likely as my winning the lottery (I don't buy tickets) since I can't even think of a scenario in which they would be asked to rule let alone make the right decision. We're stuck with it, the Security Industry has won, and all we can do is personally protest and balk - you, me and maybe a hundred others - assuming we even know when we're being surveilled. Thank (whoever) I was born long enough ago to remember a free America. Here endeth the sermon. |
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