Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

KY Senator Rand Paul "Detained" by TSA at BNA

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

KY Senator Rand Paul "Detained" by TSA at BNA

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 23, 2012, 8:48 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: TPA,DTW
Posts: 254
KY Senator Rand Paul "Detained" by TSA at BNA

I quoted "Detained" in the headline because we know TSA is not suppose to detain anyone. Who knows what they did, here's a couple links, apparently he refused a full-body patdown:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/71818.html

http://www.wlwt.com/r/30277502/detail.html
Spence1097 is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 8:51 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: HYX
Programs: ~IHG(p)/BW~Nat'l.Exec~ ~NW(SE)~ ~Cessna~ NASM.do-07 ~AAAF.do-05/06/07/08/09
Posts: 1,529
another/more: dailycaller.com/../report-tsa-detains-sen-rand-paul-in-nashville

popcorn, anyone ?
/.
CaveatEmpty is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 8:55 am
  #3  
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
Sounds like a well orchestrated publicity stunt, everybody ready, set off the scanner, refuse the patdown, coordinated social media posts, etc.

The media really needs to get a handle on what is and is not news, somebody setting off a scanner and refusing a patdown it not news.
cordelli is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 8:57 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ONT
Programs: AA Gold, WN A-, UA S, HH ♦, IHG Spire, Hertz Prez O, TSA Disparager
Posts: 2,159
I'm surprised a Paul would even go through the NoS in the first place. Maybe we can get some political traction here.
Michael El is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 8:59 am
  #5  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,668
But TSA's reactions might be...

Interesting that he was able to make a call. I would have expected TSA to keep him separated from his belongings until this is finally resolved.
chollie is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:11 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Catania, Sicily/South Jersey (PHL)/Houston, Texas/Red Stick/airborne in-between
Programs: United Global Svs, AA PlatPro, WN RR, AZ/ITA Freccia, Hilton Diam, Bonvoy Gold, Hertz Prez, IHG
Posts: 3,541
Originally Posted by cordelli
Sounds like a well orchestrated publicity stunt, everybody ready, set off the scanner, refuse the patdown, coordinated social media posts, etc.

The media really needs to get a handle on what is and is not news, somebody setting off a scanner and refusing a patdown it not news.
When it is a US Senator it will be news.
FlyingHoustonian is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:18 am
  #7  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,668
He apparently asked to be re-scanned.

Anyone know if BNA has BSX or MMW? Seems like if it was the latter, he should have been able to view the screen and see the location of the 'anomaly'.
chollie is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:20 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,306
Originally Posted by cordelli
Sounds like a well orchestrated publicity stunt, everybody ready, set off the scanner, refuse the patdown, coordinated social media posts, etc.
They also timed it perfectly for the story to get traction. The incident happened on Monday morning, the day before the State of The Union address.

From The Tennessean:

But Rand Paul's office claimed Rand Paul set off the full body scanner and then refused a full pat down.

A posting on Ron Paul's Facebook page also claims Rand Paul was detained at Nashville International.


Source:
The Tennessean
Ron Paul's son, Sen. Rand Paul, allegedly detained by TSA in Nashville
9:26 AM, Jan. 23, 2012
RatherBeOnATrain is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:27 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
Originally Posted by cordelli
The media really needs to get a handle on what is and is not news, somebody setting off a scanner and refusing a patdown it not news.
Originally Posted by FlyingHoustonian
When it is a US Senator it will be news.
I hope this gets legs. I hope some TSA manager that gets named in the press demands that Sen Paul leave the airport and has him escorted out by LEOs. The potential for humiliating TSA is enormous, and Sen Paul is enough of an individualist and a liberty-lover to make a stink about it.

IANAL and I don't know where Sen Paul was headed on this trip (though DC for tomorrow's State of the Union seems likely), but I hope there is a Constitutional issue here too:

Originally Posted by US Constitution Article I section 6
They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the
Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of
their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for
any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other
Place.
If Sen. Paul or any other Congressman is en route to DC, what business does TSA (or law enforcement) have with them at all? Refusing a grope is not Treason (also defined in the Constitution) and not a felony to my knowledge. What did the framers mean by "Breach of the Peace?" Does TSA screening (even without BDO voodoo) constitute being "questioned?"

As much as I want Congressmen to suffer from TSA abuses to motivate them to be stopped, I could easily see constructing an argument that Congressmen going to/from DC during sessions should be completely exempt from any sort of screening by TSA.
studentff is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:32 am
  #10  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,668
You forget...the Constitution doesn't apply at the checkpoint.

Wonder if the checkpoint video has entered 'malfunction' mode yet?
chollie is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:40 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,518
ABC News article http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-pat-...-abc-news.html says

A TSA spokesman disputed that Paul was ever “detained.” But he was not granted access to the secure area of the airport.

The TSA version of events is that Paul was not detained, but triggered an alarm during routine airport screening and refused to complete the screening process (pat-down) in order to resolve the issue. Paul was escorted out of the screening area by local law enforcement.

“When an irregularity is found during the TSA screening process, it must be resolved prior to allowing a passenger to proceed to the secure area of the airport,” according to an official statement released by TSA. “Passengers who refuse to complete the screening process cannot be granted access to the secure area in order to ensure the safety of others traveling.”
That seems normal enough. The only reason this is news is that Sen. Paul is in a position to take actions that may eventually affect TSA.
swag is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 9:43 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,725
Originally Posted by swag
That seems normal enough. The only reason this is news is that Sen. Paul is in a position to take actions that may eventually affect TSA.
I wonder if TSA threatened him with an $11,000 fine like they do others who refuse this patdown.

Countdown to spin from Bloghdad Bob at Propaganda Village in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...
studentff is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 10:05 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 81
I can just hear the "law and order" types now: 'Well it doesn't matter if you're a senator. I don't care who you are, you're subject to The Law.' .....

Well, see, that's the problem right there. TSA "doesn't care who you are". As a security agency, what they should be most focused on is "who you are" -- no rational system of security can exist absent this primary concern.

Instead, we have a 'security' apparatus focused on cupcakes and colostomy bags.

Maybe the "irregularity" they noticed was a senator with some back-bone...
FlyingCowboy is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 10:08 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DC area and San Francisco
Programs: SWA A-List, OnePass, AA, U-MP, more
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by studentff
IANAL and I don't know where Sen Paul was headed on this trip (though DC for tomorrow's State of the Union seems likely), but I hope there is a Constitutional issue here too:
That's more evidence that the TSA considers their checkpoints a constitution-free zone.

The story linked to indicates that he was headed to D.C.

If that's correct, what happened was unambiguously a constitutional breach.

Some might argue that he needed to go through the WTMD, but I wouldn't. Nothing could be done even if an alarm was triggered unless there was a clear indication that he was committing a felony. A very clear indication, not just a faint suspicion. He shouldn't be detained longer than briefest period needed to check his identity.

This isn't a theoretical slippery slope argument. That section of the constitution is explicit because of repeated incidents.

If I recall correctly, a U.S. congressman can even refuse a speeding ticket on the way a session. The LEO must follow and present the evidence to the Sergeant at Arms. The ticket will likely be paid or contested as normal, but the threat is censure in the legislative branch not arrest by the executive branch.

In this case if the TSA agent had a problem, they should have escorted the Senator on the undelayed flight to D.C. and taken it up with the Doorkeeper of the Senate. Then a Senate committee could decide if they are going to establish a rule that their members must give up their explicit, constitutionally established privilege to the executive branch. (In D.C., that would be the punchline to a joke.)
eastport is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2012, 10:12 am
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
Originally Posted by FlyingCowboy
I can just hear the "law and order" types now: 'Well it doesn't matter if you're a senator. I don't care who you are, you're subject to The Law.' .....

Well, see, that's the problem right there. TSA "doesn't care who you are". As a security agency, what they should be most focused on is "who you are" -- no rational system of security can exist absent this primary concern.

Instead, we have a 'security' apparatus focused on cupcakes and colostomy bags.

Maybe the "irregularity" they noticed was a senator with some back-bone...
And the Constitution is the law of the land. Seems the Senator was on his way to vote during a Senate session this afternoon.

Seems TSA is in violation of the Constitution in this case.
Boggie Dog is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.