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Terminal Dump at MAF after US Soldier attempts to bring bomb thru TSA checkpoint

Terminal Dump at MAF after US Soldier attempts to bring bomb thru TSA checkpoint

Old Jan 5, 2012, 10:07 am
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon
2.5 pounts of C4.



Yes.
Those questions were asked and answered pages back.

The question is, did the TSA miss the C4 in NC?
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 10:56 am
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyingHoustonian
Those questions were asked and answered pages back.

The question is, did the TSA miss the C4 in NC?
Of course they did. there is almost zero chance that this guy picked up military grade c-4 in TX before heading back. It was in his bag the entire time.
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 12:20 pm
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Originally Posted by danl08
Of course they did. there is almost zero chance that this guy picked up military grade c-4 in TX before heading back. It was in his bag the entire time.
Well, had he not "forgotten" about the smoke grenade and the C-4's, he could've possibly find a way to dispose of and return them to his base's stockpile? (just wondering, ya know)

Wait, if every elite Army special forces team are routinely backpacking safely 2.5 pounds of clay, amng other things, wherever they go - would somebody mind running an inventory audit inside our armory every so often - my neighbors next door would feel a little safer from hometown would-be terrorists just in case we cannot account for more than 2 lbs. but assumed it's been blown up already?

I wouldn't worry about the blasting caps or ignitors as I'm sure "they" all knew how to improvise & make it work, out of necessity ...
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 2:18 pm
  #94  
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
That was already answered previously.


We know, but at what point? How about the question of whether he traveled with the C4 on the outbound?

BTW, C4 is a heavy duty explosive, but it is very stable such that you can pretty much hit it, light it and throw it without an explosion occurring (unlike the liquid explosives that were purported to be the subject of the "liquid bomb plot").
There was a fairly recent Mythbusters episode where they did just that--light it on fire. This was under the supervision of a bomb tech, they weren't being reckless.

They even tried robotically stomping on it while it was on fire, no boom.
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 3:40 pm
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Originally Posted by danl08
Of course they did. there is almost zero chance that this guy picked up military grade c-4 in TX before heading back. It was in his bag the entire time.
I know that; I want to hear the TSO admit it.
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 4:35 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by FlyingHoustonian
I know that; I want to hear the TSO admit it.
I'd be very surprised if that ever happens. There have been a couple times when TSA went very quiet - John Tyner and Yukio Miyamae come to mind.

The guy is Special Forces. If he maintains that the C4 (and smoke grenade) were in his bag from the time he left Afghanistan until the checkpoints, they're going to have a tough time getting him to change his story. No waterboarding allowed!

I think the real fall-out from this is that we (pax) are all going to pay the price for TSA's lapse somehow.

'Re-training' for TSOs (instead of discipline).

'Re-education' for citizens who just want to travel by air.
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 6:44 pm
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
That was already answered previously.
Maybe.

Originally Posted by ND Sol
We know, but at what point? How about the question of whether he traveled with the C4 on the outbound?
He brought the C4 back with him from the war, stored it for a couple of weeks in his garage, then took it with him on the flight in question. Most likely he flew back from Afghanistan using a military contract flight, if not an actual military flight, and would not have been screened by the TSA. How he got from his flight termination point to his home is a good question, and may not have involved a commercial flight.

Originally Posted by ND Sol
BTW, C4 is a heavy duty explosive, but it is very stable such that you can pretty much hit it, light it and throw it without an explosion occurring (unlike the liquid explosives that were purported to be the subject of the "liquid bomb plot").
Been there, done that. It burns pretty good, better than wax.

Several weeks earlier this individual was the subject of another EIR with TSA. The item he was carrying then contained parts that were designed specifically as a detonator.

Originally Posted by chollie
The guy is Special Forces. If he maintains that the C4 (and smoke grenade) were in his bag from the time he left Afghanistan until the checkpoints
emphasis mine

Military hops do not use the TSA for screening. Sounds to me like he never went through a TSA checkpoint until he was found with the smoke grenade (initiator), and then again with the C4.

Special forces huh? Obviously not the brightest bulb in the pack.

Last edited by TSORon; Jan 5, 2012 at 6:50 pm Reason: Add
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Old Jan 5, 2012, 8:53 pm
  #98  
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Originally Posted by TSORon
Most likely he flew back from Afghanistan using a military contract flight, if not an actual military flight, and would not have been screened by the TSA. How he got from his flight termination point to his home is a good question, and may not have involved a commercial flight.
Ron, I have been on a few regional jet flights where the crew (usually the captain) announced that the soldiers onboard were returning home. After the applause died down, the captain then requested that the civilian passengers remain seated so that the soldiers be let off the plane first. It is one thing to see reunions happen, but a totally different experience to walk off the jetway and have to pass thru a group of soldiers being latched onto by their children. The soldiers don't even seem to have time to drop their huge duffel bags before their kids swarm them!

Anyway, as many of us FTers have vivid memories of being on regular commercial flights with returning soldiers, I trust that you can understand why we suspect that Sergeant Atwater flew to MAF on a commercial flight.
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 6:58 am
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Originally Posted by TSORon
He brought the C4 back with him from the war, stored it for a couple of weeks in his garage, then took it with him on the flight in question. Most likely he flew back from Afghanistan using a military contract flight, if not an actual military flight, and would not have been screened by the TSA. How he got from his flight termination point to his home is a good question, and may not have involved a commercial flight.

Several weeks earlier this individual was the subject of another EIR with TSA. The item he was carrying then contained parts that were designed specifically as a detonator.

Military hops do not use the TSA for screening. Sounds to me like he never went through a TSA checkpoint until he was found with the smoke grenade (initiator), and then again with the C4.
Are you trying to obfuscate with your discussion of military hops or are you just confused? Military hops are not part of this equation.

You state, "He brought the C4 back with him from the war, stored it for a couple of weeks in his garage, then took it with him on the flight in question." You conveniently skipped over the crux of the issue: how did the C4 make it from his garage in North Carolina to Texas. You admit that he went through a TSA checkpoint on his trip from NC to Texas as that is when the smoke grenade was found. The issue is whether the C4 was also in the carry-on and missed.

"The item he was carrying then contained parts that were designed specifically as a detonator" makes it sounds ominous and a nefarious plot as opposed to the item being a "smoke grenade (initiator)". I'm not trying to minimize the damage that can be done with releasing a smoke grenade in an airplane, but I wouldn't think that if someone was trying to smuggle a detonator on board, they would do it in the guise of a smoke grenade.

Last edited by ND Sol; Jan 6, 2012 at 7:43 am Reason: Not not
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 7:35 am
  #100  
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Number one question still remains unanswered: if his story is true, screeners in Fayetteville looked in his bag, confiscated the smoke grenade and left 2 pounds of explosive.

I expect the spin on this will be that Fayetteville took the smoke grenade (possible detonator) and 'admonished' him. TSA will then point out that, as Mythbusters has shown, the explosive by itself, without a detonator, was not a threat and 'at no time was the travelling public at risk'.

Not that the same logic applies where cupcakes are concerned, of course...
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 7:53 am
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Originally Posted by TSORon
He brought the C4 back with him from the war, stored it for a couple of weeks in his garage, then took it with him on the flight in question. Most likely he flew back from Afghanistan using a military contract flight, if not an actual military flight, and would not have been screened by the TSA. How he got from his flight termination point to his home is a good question, and may not have involved a commercial flight.
100% wrong
He flew commercial from NC to Midland TX. Thats where they caught the smoke grenade. FAIL
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by TSORon
Maybe.



Military hops do not use the TSA for screening. Sounds to me like he never went through a TSA checkpoint until he was found with the smoke grenade (initiator), and then again with the C4.

Special forces huh? Obviously not the brightest bulb in the pack.
Actually many outbound flights do use TSA, as do hops in the US from comm airports but the point remains (which you are ignoring) he flew COMMERCIAL from North Carolina to Texas with the C-4 in his bag and the TSA missed it.

Just admit the failure.
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 9:08 am
  #103  
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Originally Posted by SATTSO
It is amazing that many peolpe do not get this.

As pointed out by the GAO, the FBI, and various other agencies, the greatest risk is an un-assembled IED. It is more difficult to see on the x-ray. It can potentially be brought in at different airports. People involved do not need be on the same flight; they do not need to meet - one person can dump an item in a trash can for another to pick up in an hour or so later.

Explosives found at the checkpiont is such a rare event that dumping the terminal is a prudent measure. After which a sweep of the terminal should be conducted, and passengers/employees re-screened. To not do so would be silly. Would be stupid, actually.

But I suspect that many on this site will complain about TSA no matter what happens. Goes with the territory, I guess.
I understand your point, and it's not necessarily unreasonable. However, what you are seeing is the "cry wolf" effect in action. TSA has conducted so many unnecessary terminal dumps, confiscated so much obviously non-threatening contraband, invaded so many innocent people's privacy, and claimed success for so much failure that, at this point, it is little to no credibility with most of the public. Perhaps some day TSA will actually stop a terrorist threat at the airport. Will it be worth all the constitutional violations, the impositions, and the police state tactics to which we have been subject for the last 10 years?

There's a reason why people don't wear broken wristwatches, notwithstanding that they display the right time twice a day.
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 9:44 am
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It may have been said before but C4 by itself is harmless. I've used the stuff on the bottom of a canteen cup to heat coffee and never once was blown up. The Soldier is question did not have a "bomb" he had explosive material, there is a big difference.
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Old Jan 6, 2012, 11:26 am
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Originally Posted by Jcd2147
It may have been said before but C4 by itself is harmless. I've used the stuff on the bottom of a canteen cup to heat coffee and never once was blown up. The Soldier is question did not have a "bomb" he had explosive material, there is a big difference.
I don't think anybody in this thread has suggested that he had a <b-word> or that he intended any harm to the flight(s).

Incredibly stupid on both counts, but not a threat. The issue is the TSA apparently missing a large enough block of explosive (if inert) material which they are paid to umm... notice. Attempts to deflect this incredible error serve only to emphasize just how damaging it is. What's that about "getting it right every time" ? Pah!
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