PhoenixRev

The current paradigm, then, needs an immediate overhaul.

As I have stated before, any member of the TSA or DHS who thinks that terrorists are saying, "If only we could have put our shoes in the bins instead of on the belt, we would have brought America to its knees!!" needs to be fired and publicly mocked for excessive stupidity.

OxonCantab

If we're picking that reason for firing people, then Pistole is going to be out of a job.

BadgerBoi

Post of the year?
^^^

N965VJ

That sounds like just about any other rant from a service sector employee. The kind that likes their job okay enough, well, except for they have to deal with customers.


I like that analogy, and I bet the beer was good, too!

Global_Hi_Flyer

Passengers are not customers to TSA. Passengers are suspects or potential suspects.

If passengers were customers, we would pay TSA directly (not through a tax) and we'd have a choice of vendors.

TSA is a government "service" and like other government services does not consider the citizenry to be customers. To add to the arrogance, TSA knows that it's unlikely that they will ever be held accountable for treatment of passengers.

WillCAD

It's not really false, it's inaccurate. There is a difference, though either one makes TSA look incompetent as an agency in my eyes.

I'm glad to hear that at least one person in your agency has some rational thought processes at work and regards the traveling public as human beings rather than cattle which must be "Hya'd!" through the checkpoints with whips and spurs.

One thing you might point out to any who give you the BS excuse about consistency in application allowing bad guys to "game the system" is that the harder it is to "game" the system, the harder it becomes for the Good Guys to actually comply with the system.

exbayern

Take a look at the thread I linked which is really a shame. The liquid rules I believe came into place in 2006, five years ago. The change in the US from 3oz to 3,4oz occurred quite soon afterwards, although I cannot recall the exact date.

Here's an old thread about confusing the furriners with the varying information, but here we are in 2012 and still the TSA website contradicts itself.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...eckpoints.html

(This thread is from before I read TS&S and I see there are TSOs and LTSOs posting. It's a scary read, frankly, with all sorts of misinformation)

chollie

Sadly, if you check back 5 years from now, you probably won't see any improvements.

I say 'sadly' because I'm a taxpayer who helped pay for the TSA's pathetic website. A group of gifted high school students could undoubtedly re-vamp the website to produce something far more consistent, accurate and useful than what we have today in a single semester.

Wherever TSA got/gets their IT folks from, they couldn't get and hold jobs in the real world with the kind of product they produce.

Of course, it's also possible that the website is deliberately a mess - more of TSA's 'inconsistent by design'. No bad guy is going to get any useful information from the perpetually out-of-date website. Of course, neither are the 99.99% of pax who just want to follow the rules...

exbayern, are there equivalent websites in German? How do they stack up? I have yet to observe the mass of inconsistent/contradictory/outdated signage/bellowing/barking/videos in European airports that I see here in the US.

And I don't believe I've ever heard a taped loop at a gate a train ride past the checkpoint reminding me every ten minutes about the LGA's that I shouldn't take through the checkpoint.

chollie

Doesn't this inconsistency make it more difficult for TSOs to know the 'real' rules?

At any rate, inconsistency should never result in the pax being required to surrender an item at one checkpoint but not another, IMHO.

I understand that the FSD can make up new rules (only one lighter or pair of nail clippers, for example, or kids taking their shoes off at DEN, even though Pistole made it sound like that requirement had been rolled back nationally). Nevertheless, it still isn't right that a cupcake is ok at one airport/checkpoint but not another.

exbayern

You mean websites about restrictions, correct? They are pretty consistent across the EU, whether I read them in German, French, English, Italian, Spanish. Airports and airlines tend to post the official information as well.

As well, there are highlights posted in airports. (And they tend to highlight things people may not understand, or realise, such as when posters here think that TSA rules are consistent around the world, which they are not)

And no barking, no shouting, and no announcements airside about security. At FRA it does get a little annoying regarding the gate announcements both landside and airside, but that is FRA, which struggles due to its size and passenger volume.

At MUC there is peace; usually the announcements are about a gate change, or a final page for a missing passenger.

The first German translation I posted was rather simplistic and not written in the special German officialese language usually used for such documents. I am not certain why they chose to rewrite the document instead of just taking what was already in place in German and revising it for TSA differences. Oh, wait, silly exbayern for wondering that.

I actually heard the taped announcement whilst leaving ORD in a taxi a few weeks ago. Yes, it was so loud that I heard it inside the taxi, and I didn't have the window open.

chollie

Yes, I was wondering about the European equivalent(s) of the TSA website - how consistent and up-to-date the information is, how easy for the pax to find out information...

IIRC, a couple years ago Britney Spears was seen being escorted through a checkpoint with a cup full of ice chips (allegedly) with not a single drop of liquid. Supposedly everyone was allowed to do that, it was a very recent decision and...you guessed it, the website hadn't been updated yet.

To the best of my knowledge, the website still hasn't been updated. That's probably just to confuse the bad guys, of course, who would research the TSA website but never read headlines or watch youtube videos.

exbayern

Simple enough for you, chollie?

http://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/p...dia_417669.pdf

There is of course written info, but I think that this visual makes it easy to understand.

And here is the TSA version - 3oz, and no mention of medical liquids... http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/311-credit-card.pdf

chollie

Thanks, that confirmed what I suspected - that the website is in line with the airport experience.

If you don't mind, a few more questions come to mind.

We read here in the US that TSA is the most-despised, least-respected federal organization. We read quotes from screeners saying they are bullied and treated with contempt by the pax. (Slightly OT, but their new union is suggesting that their own management bullies them and treats them with contempt, but I digress). They advertise for help on pizza boxes. They are the butt of jokes (worldwide). Rarely does a month pass without a report of a TSO being arrested. There have been multiple instances of multiple TSOs and even supervisors involved in misconduct at the airport (HNL and EWR come to mind). Some members of Congress have been openly critical of TSA, both screener actions and agency policies.
(Apologies to 'good apple' TSOs who might read this - I'm sure you realize it doesn't apply to you personally, but the above statements are certainly true).

How does that compare to what you know of European security agencies?

Also, TSA makes it difficult to provide feedback - even positive feedback. Further, there is absolutely no evidence that TSA pays attention to feedback unless the media gets involved. How does this compare with European practices?

Lastly, what are the rules about locking luggage in Europe? When I check a bag here in the US, I'm generally asked/reminded that the bag must be unlocked or locked with a TSA-approved lock. I don't recall ever being asked that question in Europe and I have always locked my bags (most recently, 3 weeks ago returning from FRA). What is the process if there's something in my checked luggage that generates questions?

Thanks!

exbayern

Here is another version of the TSA flyer - again, 3oz, and this time it says 'three simple steps to security' but then it lists four bullet points. Confused?

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/311_brochure.pdf



I'll just go with the German version, although it really isn't that far different from what I experience around western and central Europe.

First, it is a career, not a job. I mentioned before a young Turkish-German screener I met, who was very worried about his English skills, as they are a requirement for the position. His spoken English was excellent, yet he told me that it wasn't yet up to the required level. (Keep in mind that he spoke at least 3 languages fluently, and compare this to the TSO level of education) Most career/professional positions require an apprenticeship, which includes professional or technical school. I honestly don't know if there are security 'Azubis' but the airports do have apprenticeship roles. There does seem to be various courses in aviation security however.

I don't see a lot of slovenly security agents. Most around Europe are polite and professional in manner and speech. Some are more warm and friendly than others, but that is cultural. A few of the older gentlemen at MUC for instance display a regional warmth, but I won't fault TXL or DUS or FRA for displaying efficiency over warmth. I don't recall seeing unkempt uniforms, or significant obesity impacting uniforms, etc. There is no barking or screaming or shouting, even when the passenger makes a mistake. Solutions are found, such as an offer to check the item, or to purchase a plastic bag from the automat, or to chug down the Schnapps.

It may be cultural, but almost every interaction includes a greeting, a please, and a thank you (or many) whether in Germany, France, the UK, etc.

I haven't seen a comment card but have never needed one. At MUC generally behind the screening area there are a few Federal police officers and a few 'suits' observing the screening area. There is similar at FRA. I suspect that they are ready to step in when needed.

I know that my reports here may be seen as sugar-coated, but I honestly try and report what happens. I cannot of course report every interaction I have as I fly so much from so many European airports, but in general it is easy and stress-free.

I think that a lot of my colleagues and relatives are also confused by all these negative reports about airport security in the US. When however I tell them that we have to remove shoes, and that wearing a skirt is a strong likelihood for secondary, or when they hear reports from their friends or neighbours about furrin passports not accepted as ID, or about the screaming and barking, they start to understand that the TSA is such a different beast than airport security in much of the rest of the world.

exbayern

Ah, I see that you added a question! Luggages (especially hard sided cases) do come with built in locks. But they are often not TSA approved locks, so we have a choice when travelling to the US - buy a TSA approved lock at a shameful price, risk our nice luggage being broken open, use a twist tie or cable tie, or leave it unlocked.

There is no real rule I believe about locking luggage; if you lock it and they need to get inside, they usually page you, I think. In some countries the passenger is right there while checked bags are screened, so we can open the suitcase and point out the offending item (Happens to me sometimes in India for instance)

I lock luggage moreso because I often travel on trains, and generally am leaving my bag unattended for a long period of time.

Lufthansa in fact warns passengers about TSA breaking open locks because this is apparently unusual enough to highlight in its own section on the website. http://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Baggage-guide