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TSORon Dec 14, 2011 6:11 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17602573)
So the law being violated is bringing the firearm to the airport, not the TSA checkpoint. There's no additional jeopardy incurred by the gun being discovered at the checkpoint, as opposed to, say, the food court.

The only place you are going to find a “TSA Checkpoint” is in an airport. There is a 99% chance you are not going to be searched while wandering around the public area of an airport, but a 100% chance of being searched in some manner at the checkpoint. So naturally this is the most common place for someone to be caught breaking the laws of carrying a weapon at the airport. Kinda logical don’t ya think?


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17602573)
Question: Is the checkpoint considered part of the sterile area?

I am currently unclear about that, but I can research the SOP and let you know for sure. My thought is that once someone presents themselves (or their property) for screening (Walk through the WTMD or enter the AIT system), that they have crossed into the sterile area where weapons are not allowed by the run-of-the-mill passengers.


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17602573)
Obviously, it's the gateway to the sterile area, but I'm guessing that since not all passengers within the checkpoint have completed screening, the checkpoint can't be considered part of the sterile area. So, technically, the crime doesn't occur until after the passenger exits the checkpoint and enters the sterile area with a firearm. And, again, having a firearm at a TSA checkpoint is not relevant to the question of violation of law.

Again, the exact point where one crosses from one space to the other I am not totally clear about. I know that you can walk all the way to the WTMD or AIT system and still turn around without significant consequence. But actually crossing that threshold into the checkpoint is entering the sterile area.


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17602573)
Here I'd concede the point, given that access to the TSA checkpoint itself is certainly "controlled".

In any event ... of the three examples you cited, it only appears to me that one example supports your original claim.



You do, in fact, play a part in their conviction. And in this situation you are not "just like other citizens", since you are required by your employer to report possible violations of law that you observe --- a requirement which common citizens are not required to follow.

Actually the law in many states requires citizens to report it when they observe someone breaking the law. Some states designate all citizens as “Mandatory Reporters” for certain things, and some only certain people based upon their profession.

But your right, the TSA does require us to report it when someone is violating a law in an area that TSA controls. We are required to report it to our supervisors. What they are required to do with it once it is in their hands you are going to have to address to someone else, I am not a supervisor.

PhoenixRev Dec 14, 2011 6:51 pm


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 17626589)
Only in the most general sense. I think that most jurors would be able to distinguish trying to going through a checkpoint and being near one.

Okay, but I was looking at your statement about "bringing a firearm to the checkpoint." Sorry if I misunderstood.

doober Dec 14, 2011 7:18 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17628551)
Actually the law in many states requires citizens to report it when they observe someone breaking the law. Some states designate all citizens as “Mandatory Reporters” for certain things, and some only certain people based upon their profession.

"Mandatory Reporting" concerns only crimes such as child or elder (sometimes) abuse, not other every day "crimes."

jkhuggins Dec 14, 2011 7:24 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17628551)
The only place you are going to find a “TSA Checkpoint” is in an airport. There is a 99% chance you are not going to be searched while wandering around the public area of an airport, but a 100% chance of being searched in some manner at the checkpoint. So naturally this is the most common place for someone to be caught breaking the laws of carrying a weapon at the airport. Kinda logical don’t ya think?

Again, the original point stands. In Nevada, being caught with a firearm at a TSA checkpoint bears the same potential consequences as being caught anywhere else in the airport. There's nothing special about a TSA checkpoint in that regard.


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17628551)
I am currently unclear about that, but I can research the SOP and let you know for sure. My thought is that once someone presents themselves (or their property) for screening (Walk through the WTMD or enter the AIT system), that they have crossed into the sterile area where weapons are not allowed by the run-of-the-mill passengers.

I appreciate you looking that up for us (well, ok, me).


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17628551)
Actually the law in many states requires citizens to report it when they observe someone breaking the law. Some states designate all citizens as “Mandatory Reporters” for certain things, and some only certain people based upon their profession.

I am unaware of any state mandatory reporting laws regarding the possession of firearms --- which is the question at hand. I, as an ordinary passenger, am not compelled to report such information. You, as a TSA employee, are compelled to do so. And, therefore, you do play a role in the passenger's potential conviction ... because without your (individual or collective) testimony, there is no evidence of a crime.

RichardKenner Dec 14, 2011 7:37 pm


Originally Posted by PhoenixRev (Post 17628756)
Okay, but I was looking at your statement about "bringing a firearm to the checkpoint." Sorry if I misunderstood.

I was interpreting "bringing a firearm to the checkpoint" as implying that the person had the intention of transiting the checkpoint.

TSORon Dec 17, 2011 3:40 pm


Originally Posted by doober (Post 17628882)
"Mandatory Reporting" concerns only crimes such as child or elder (sometimes) abuse, not other every day "crimes."

Hence the part about "“Mandatory Reporters” for certain things". :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17628924)
Again, the original point stands. In Nevada, being caught with a firearm at a TSA checkpoint bears the same potential consequences as being caught anywhere else in the airport. There's nothing special about a TSA checkpoint in that regard.

But in New York it is not. In NY you get the state treatment only if caught before the checkpoint, but once at the checkpoint you get both state and federal. I believe NJ is just about the same way.


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17628924)
I appreciate you looking that up for us (well, ok, me).

Welcome. And I confirmed by belief, presenting oneself for screening is the transition point from the public side to the sterile area. And to the best of my recollection I have not heard of anyone who did so unintentionally, nor would it matter if they had.


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 17628924)
I am unaware of any state mandatory reporting laws regarding the possession of firearms --- which is the question at hand. I, as an ordinary passenger, am not compelled to report such information. You, as a TSA employee, are compelled to do so. And, therefore, you do play a role in the passenger's potential conviction ... because without your (individual or collective) testimony, there is no evidence of a crime.

I am unaware of any as well, but that does not mean that they do not exist somewhere. But your right, our part in the case in question starts in finding the object, and ends just like any other citizen by being a good witness. But unlike the run-of-the-mill citizen, I get paid to do it. I kinda like that idea. :D:D

jkhuggins Dec 17, 2011 3:53 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17646322)
But in New York it is not. In NY you get the state treatment only if caught before the checkpoint, but once at the checkpoint you get both state and federal. I believe NJ is just about the same way.

Ok. So, in some states, having a firearm at a TSA checkpoint creates extra problems for the passenger, while in other states there's no additional jeopardy other than that incurred by being in the airport.


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17646322)
And I confirmed by belief, presenting oneself for screening is the transition point from the public side to the sterile area.

Thanks for looking that up.


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17646322)
our part in the case in question starts in finding the object, and ends just like any other citizen by being a good witness.

No ... with respect, Ron, you're still missing the key point.

If I discover that a fellow passenger is carrying a firearm, and point it out to him, and he says "oops, lemme go put this back in my car" and leaves, I can exercise my own discretion and choose not to report the event, since (IMHO) the spirit of the law has been fulfilled. If you, as an on-duty TSO, make the same discovery, you have no such discretion; you are compelled to make the report to your chain of command --- even if such a report would be counterproductive in the long run.

"Being a good witness" is not always the best course of action.

doober Dec 17, 2011 5:51 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17646322)
Hence the part about "“Mandatory Reporters” for certain things". :rolleyes:

You began your thought with the sentence:


Actually the law in many states requires citizens to report it when they observe someone breaking the law.
Not certain laws or some laws but the law, meaning any and all laws. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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