Gate patdowns and detainment at DEN
 

I was flying from DEN recently...

TSA came along for the gate checks. This gate had an area that was segregated for inspections. In this case, they were pulling people out of line for thorough pat-downs. :mad: After the pat-downs, they forced people to stay within this segregated area. :mad::mad: One person tried to leave and was coerced by TSA to stay withing the inspection area. Since the flight wasn't ready to leave (about 10 min.), these people, IMO, were being detained unlawfully by TSA. FWIW, there was no LEO in sight.

Has anyone else seen this?

Do any of our resident legal beagles have thoughts on the legality of this approach?

I wonder if cows feel the same way...

No wondering needed, now we know.

Does the technicaltiy of legality really matter? How quaint. Unless a passenger (prisoner?) decided to leave the detainment area and enter the sterile side, and be arrested by a LEO for some dubious charge and then challenge it in court, does it matter whether a given practice is "legal"?

:mad:

Gate checks are already in the "sterile side". Which I think was the point.

Oops, I didn't see the key part that this was at the gate, and not at the checkpoint.

While I don't like the gate searches, once you have passed muster, you are "free to go" and cannot be told that you must be kept segregated as that is a detention and TSO's have no power to detain and only a LEO can detain and TSO's are not LEO's. :mad:

Was it a DCA-bound flight?

Not sure if these links will help, but they may shed some light on TSA policies regarding sterile areas and bag searches. I should have some more (recent) info regarding policy and procedure in the upcoming weeks.

*I posted these in another thread as well, but for some reason the thread is not visible (yet).

Cheers

http://cryptome.org/tsa-ssi-02.pdf

http://www.airsafe.com/issues/securi...t-redacted.pdf

http://publicintelligence.net/ssi-t....ncy-amendment/

http://www.leighfisher.com/trb/575-3-05-0258.pdf

I agree. If this had happened to me (I just witnessed it), I would have made a pretty big stink and given them the "am I free to leave" rigamarole.

Nope. To ORD.

I think this begs another question - IF one were to decide that they were "free to go" when the TSO obviously did not agree with that sentiment could said TSO then have the party in question escorted from the 'sterile area'?

Pure speculation would venture that YES said non-conforming party could be escorted from the 'sterile area' as it appears on the surface that the TSOs do have the authority to deny entry to the 'sterile area' and/or to an aircraft.

Exactly. Once the patdown and ETD swab are done, if the TSO tries keeping you from boarding, the only question to ask is, "Am I free to go or am I being detained." If you do not get a reply, ask again. If still no reply, then state that you are leaving as you are not being detained. If the TSO says you are not free to go, then demand to know the crime he suspects you of having committed, since even if the TSO had detention power, he would need reasonable suspicion of a crime to continue to detain you. If the TSO cannot provide one, then demand a LEO to file a charge of unlawful detainment.

I think there is a big difference between somebody who refuses a gate search and somebody who complies with it fully, but is then told they must stay within certain area.

Escorting a person that has completed the gate check out of the sterile area, simply for getting back in line or joining his companions, is something I'd love to see them try. This seems like easy pickings for a good lawyer.

And please, please, if you witness this make-work nonsense, get out your phone and record it. I'd love to see a TSO get in your face and tell you that filming is not allowed at the gate.

The standard TSO does not have the authority to deny access to the sterile area, only a supervisor or manager and above can do that. And of course LEO's, Airport Security Managers, etc.

"Gate Checks" rarely involve a supervisor, so to have someone escorted from the sterile area (for whatever reason) either an STSO (unlikely, they have checkpoints to run) or a LEO must be involved.

TSORon

You know there's a giant forest behind the tree, don't you?