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JFK T4 - Assaulted by TSO for filming, forced to delete

JFK T4 - Assaulted by TSO for filming, forced to delete

Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:07 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by MaximumSisu
1. Get a lawyer

2. Get professional help to recover the video.

This erase the video thing is so wrong. If the video could not be taken (doubtful), it is evidence and may not be destroyed except on court order. The video of the battery on the passenger is evidence, and the cop's destruction of that evidence is a felony. If he consulted with TSA before that destruction, and they decided among themselves to destroy that evidence, that is conspiracy, also a felony. Your lawyer will be able to help you with the Internal Affairs and District Attorney procedures.

Don't let this drop. This is a golden opportunity.
^^ Get a lawyer and lodge a complaint with the District Attorney. If he doesn't act, go to the US Attorney for the Eastern District of New York.

What needs to happen now is for an organized event of filming at JFK - people filming TSA, someone filming the filming, and someone else filming them. that way someone would be able to get the film of the encounter out into the public domain, where we can all see the ongoing trampling of our civili liberties.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:09 am
  #32  
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Wirelessly posted (Apple iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I honestly do not understand what possessed the OP to make such trouble for himself/herself at JFK. Airports are sensitive, high security facilities nowadays, and while TSOs often do step over the line, they are also just trying to do their job. Part of that involves observing behavior within airports, and taking numerous photos and videos of security procedures is likely to arouse some suspicion, regardless of whether it is technically legal or permitted by the TSA website. Why would the OP want to risk getting written up and being flagged by some database, resulting in SSSSpecial treatment on future trips?

I would have complied politely with the first request to stop taping.

Last edited by ESpen36; Aug 7, 2011 at 8:15 am
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:12 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
Wirelessly posted (Apple iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I honestly do not understand what possessed the OP to make such trouble for himself/herself at JFK. Airports are sensitive, high security facilities nowadays, and while TSOs often do step over the line, they are also just trying to do their job. Part of that involves observing behavior within airports, and taking numerous photos and videos of security procedures is likely to arouse some suspicion, regardless of whether it is technically legal or permitted by the TSA website. Why would the OP want to risk getting written up and being flagged by some database, resulting in SSSSpecial treatment on future trips?

I would have complied politely with the first request to stop taping.
Per the OP he was not near the TSA checkpoints when this went down. I have to question if you read the OP's post.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:22 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
Wirelessly posted (Apple iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Airports are sensitive, high security facilities nowadays,

I would have complied politely with the first request to stop taping.

Psssst, ESpen, don't look now but the boogey man is right behind you!!!

Why are you so frightened into believing such clap-trap?

As long as TSA can keep most people frightened, they will not want to fight back against the abuses we see. It is the game plan that seems to be working.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:24 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
Wirelessly posted (Apple iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I honestly do not understand what possessed the OP to make such trouble for himself/herself at JFK. Airports are sensitive, high security facilities nowadays, and while TSOs often do step over the line, they are also just trying to do their job. Part of that involves observing behavior within airports, and taking numerous photos and videos of security procedures is likely to arouse some suspicion, regardless of whether it is technically legal or permitted by the TSA website. Why would the OP want to risk getting written up and being flagged by some database, resulting in SSSSpecial treatment on future trips?

I would have complied politely with the first request to stop taping.
Maybe in the minority here, but probably not in the minority in the US, where the sheeple continue to graze.

Thank God, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, etc. although initially in the minority persevered, giving us a country without monarch, D Notices, Officials Secrets Act and other niceties currently "enjoyed" by our previous owner.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:26 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
[SIZE=1]Why would the OP want to risk getting written up and being flagged by some database, resulting in SSSSpecial treatment on future trips?

I would have complied politely with the first request to stop taping.
Probably for the same reasons that pesky Mrs. Parks wouldn't move to the back of the bus.

~~ Irish
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:48 am
  #37  
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I'm all in favor of civil liberties, but I'd rather let somebody else be the one to make a stink. I travel too much to risk having my record tarnished. I'd rather just take the path of least resistance. (I guess I'll never have a legacy like Mrs. Parks.)
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:55 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
I'm all in favor of civil liberties, but I'd rather let somebody else be the one to make a stink. I travel too much to risk having my record tarnished. I'd rather just take the path of least resistance. (I guess I'll never have a legacy like Mrs. Parks.)
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Often misattributed to Edmund Burke.

"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts." - definitely from Edmund Burke.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 8:57 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by ESpen36
I'm all in favor of civil liberties, but I'd rather let somebody else be the one to make a stink. I travel too much to risk having my record tarnished. I'd rather just take the path of least resistance. (I guess I'll never have a legacy like Mrs. Parks.)
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me --
and there was no one left to speak for me."

Don't worry, ESpen -- I'll speak out for you (if I'm still left).

~~ Irish
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 9:03 am
  #40  
 
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According to the PANYNJ site for JFK:

The Port Authority reserves the right to restrict videotaping and photography at its airports. Videotaping in runway and taxiway areas at all airports is prohibited at all times. Videotaping and photographing at security checkpoint areas operated by the U.S. Transportation Security Administration is prohibited without the consent of the TSA.
Source: http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/media-access.html

Now, this is the "media" section of their site, and I found it by searching for photography. Not sure how or if it applies to non-media members.

Regardless, the TSA actions were out of line, and I'm shocked the PANYNJ PD was as confrontational as they were. My cousin is a PANYNJ cop, maybe I can see if he has any more info (He's usually at EWR tho, so I doubt it)
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 9:07 am
  #41  
 
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Someone needs to take the PANYNJ to task about their photography regulations. This is what I found for the PATH (the trains that connect Hoboken and Jersey City with NYC)

IX. Photography and similar activity.
A. The taking or making of photographs of any portion of the PATH system is prohibited except as provided herein.

B. The taking or making of films, video recordings, and drawings or other visual depictions are subject to the same prohibitions, restrictions and procedures as are applicable to photography.

C. Photography which involves any of the following must comply with the requirements of the Extended Photography Policy and Procedures, in addition to these Rules:
1. Exclusive use of any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.
2. Exclusion of members of the public, PATH or Port Authority personnel, or PATH or Port Authority contractors from any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.
3. Use of equipment other than handheld equipment with self-contained power sources.

D.
1. No person may take a photograph of any portion of the PATH system unless he or she is accompanied by a representative of PATH.
2. No photograph shall be taken of any specific location, device or structure if such representative advises that such photography is prohibited because it will create an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof. If possible, a suggestion for alternative photography in PATH which would not have such an effect shall be made by the PATH representative.
3. A photographer and all members of his or her party shall follow the directions of such representative made for the purpose of preventing unreasonable interference with PATH operations, maintenance and construction, and to preserve the health and safety of the photographer or others.
4. A photographer may protest any direction made pursuant to paragraph (2) or (3) in the same manner as an appeal from the denial of a permit as set forth herein.

E. No person may take any photograph within PATH unless he or she has been issued a permit therefore by PATH as set forth herein.
1. A permit application shall be submitted in writing no later than thirty-six (36) hours preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought, and no earlier than seven (7) days preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought.
2. Permit application shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.
3. The permit application shall set forth the type, time, location and duration of activities to be conducted, and the name, address and telephone number of the person making the request (in the case of a group, it shall be sufficient to supply the name, address, and telephone number of the person who can be contacted if problems arise concerning the granting of the request). If a person making the application indicates an affiliation with an organization or group, the name and address of a local representative of the organization or group to act as a liaison will be requested; however, refusal to provide such information shall not be grounds for denial of a permit.
4. Permits will be granted on a first-come, first serve basis depending on the availability of escorts. An application will be denied in whole or in part only if: (a) the presence of visitors in a requested location would unreasonably interfere with PATH operations, maintenance and construction; (b) if the conduct cannot be performed without creating an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof; (c) if the location requested may not be visited safely by persons other than PATH or other operation, construction or maintenance personnel; (d) the application is incomplete; or, (e) the application discloses that the activities to be performed thereunder will violate these Rules.
5. A permit will be issued, or the application denied, by the PATH Permit Administrator or a designee thereof, no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. The reason for the denial of an application or any part thereof shall be set forth in writing.
6. (a) Upon the denial of any application for a permit, or the failure to issue a
permit by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the applicant may submit a written appeal to the PATH General Manager, or a designee thereof, setting forth the reasons why the application should be granted.
(b) An appeal shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or a designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. The PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, shall cause the appeal to be delivered to the General Manager, or a designee thereof.
7. A written decision denying the appeal, or issuing a permit, shall be made no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. If no decision is issued by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the appeal shall be deemed to be denied on the basis of the original decision denying the application.
8. A decision made in response to an application for a permit or an appeal of a denial of a permit shall not disclose information which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or a public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof.
9. Any person whose application for a permit has been denied may seek review of the final decision denying such application in a proceeding commenced pursuant to Article 78 of the Civil Practice Laws and Rules of the State of New York, or action in lieu of prerogative writ in the courts of the State of New Jersey.
10. The General Manager of PATH, or in his or her absence, the person designated to act in his or her stead for general management purposes, may withdraw or suspend a permit for photography in the event of, and during the pendency of, an emergency condition such as a snowstorm, fire, accident, power failure, transportation carrier schedule interruption, or other condition of such nature and character that the conduct of permitted activities would cause a danger to persons or property during the pendency of such emergency condition.
11. For the purpose of this regulation, "holidays" refers to the days set forth in VII (D) (13) above.
This sounds much more restrictive than anything we saw about the MdTA and BWI.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 9:18 am
  #42  
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"No person of color may ride PATH without official escort."

They can publish any rule they want. The rules eventually must conform to the Law of the Land. The example and the photo rules do not.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 9:33 am
  #43  
 
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Maybe the people interested in this thread would be interested in the Eye-Fi Card; it fits in a standard SD card socket but includes a wi-fi feature that sends the material being recorded to another location over the Internet.
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Old Aug 7, 2011, 9:38 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by IrishDoesntFlyNow
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me --
and there was no one left to speak for me."

Don't worry, ESpen -- I'll speak out for you (if I'm still left).

~~ Irish
I'm going to have my kids read this today.


Originally Posted by IrishDoesntFlyNow
Probably for the same reasons that pesky Mrs. Parks wouldn't move to the back of the bus.

~~ Irish
Actual bus Rosa Parks was riding December 1, 1955. It's on display at the Henry Ford museum in Deerborn, Michigan.



The actual seat she refused to give up.

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Old Aug 7, 2011, 10:20 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
You should contact a lawyer before doing any other thing.
Agree. THey need to be brought to account.
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