Are you *really* committed to our fight against the TSA? (Probably not...)
Jul 25, 2011, 1:31 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,786
I live remote from much of my family, and have missed family functions, regular trips (such as my MLB Spring Training trip) and visits to friends across the country (spread out from Key West to Eureka), all trips I normally would have and usually have taken, to refuse to fly in protest of these inane policies.
I've also spent days and days of travel time on the trips I have taken, driving or taking the train, often at higher monetary AND opportunity cost than I would have by just "gritting my teeth and bearing it".
So tell me again how I'm "Cop-ing out"?
I've also spent days and days of travel time on the trips I have taken, driving or taking the train, often at higher monetary AND opportunity cost than I would have by just "gritting my teeth and bearing it".
So tell me again how I'm "Cop-ing out"?
Jul 25, 2011, 1:37 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
As for my personal limits, here goes:
First of all, I mentally consider before each trip to the airport the possibility that I may not fly that day because of TSA. I evaluate how inconvenienced I would be, what alternatives exist (fly another day, fly another airport, train, drive, etc.). I try hard not to book the last possible flight to make it to an event I need to attend (also helps with other mundane delays/cancellations). I think every person should consider their limits on a trip-by-trip basis. This is the most important aspect of resistance to me, because TSA's power tripping and bullying is based on passengers feeling they must make their flight at all costs.
I will not go through backscatter x-ray unless en-route to the sick/death-bed of a family member, period. I have no intention of going through any NoS in the US, ever, and will not accept a screener's claim that you cannot opt out even if it means missing a flight. I haven't had to consider the issues of a mandatory-NoS airpot (LHR) yet, but I think I would prepare myself to take the train to France and catch another flight.
If wearing a cast, I would not submit to a castscope, even though TSA claims it is mandatory. That is a high-dose medical x-ray (you can see bones) much worse than the backscatter and still operated by untrained morons without calibration or quality control.
I will not remove bandages, wound dressings, etc.
I will not willingly go into a private room and will stand my ground if at all possible. If coerced and I feel compelled to go, I will insist on at least 2 non-TSA witnesses (law enforcement, airline rep, traveling companion, random stranger). If denied witnesses, I will not go into the room unless physically forced to.
I will not "voluntarily surrender" any of the following: laptop, electronics including custom electronics which I travel with from time to time, cell phone, camera equipment, any digital media, prescription medication, or any other non-prohibited item worth more than about $25.
I will not delete photographs from my camera or phone on the request of anyone. Nobody at the airport, including LEOs, has the authority to delete a photograph. Ever.
Here's an odd one for you: I will not take off my eyeglasses. For various medical reasons, the safety from flying debris that polycarbonate eyeglasses provide is very important for me. I generally do not take my glasses off in public places, and I will not do so in an airport.
I will not provide more than one ID. I uses a passport card for domestic travel. I will not provide another ID if asked. The only way they are getting another ID from me is to rummage through all of my stuff looking for it.
I will not provide my mailing address or phone number to a screener. I will not voluntarily provide my mailing address to a LEO. If threatened with arrest, I will probably cave and provide the address to the LEO, but if the LEO turns the info over to TSA I will file a complaint against that officer for misuse of PII.
First of all, I mentally consider before each trip to the airport the possibility that I may not fly that day because of TSA. I evaluate how inconvenienced I would be, what alternatives exist (fly another day, fly another airport, train, drive, etc.). I try hard not to book the last possible flight to make it to an event I need to attend (also helps with other mundane delays/cancellations). I think every person should consider their limits on a trip-by-trip basis. This is the most important aspect of resistance to me, because TSA's power tripping and bullying is based on passengers feeling they must make their flight at all costs.
I will not go through backscatter x-ray unless en-route to the sick/death-bed of a family member, period. I have no intention of going through any NoS in the US, ever, and will not accept a screener's claim that you cannot opt out even if it means missing a flight. I haven't had to consider the issues of a mandatory-NoS airpot (LHR) yet, but I think I would prepare myself to take the train to France and catch another flight.
If wearing a cast, I would not submit to a castscope, even though TSA claims it is mandatory. That is a high-dose medical x-ray (you can see bones) much worse than the backscatter and still operated by untrained morons without calibration or quality control.
I will not remove bandages, wound dressings, etc.
I will not willingly go into a private room and will stand my ground if at all possible. If coerced and I feel compelled to go, I will insist on at least 2 non-TSA witnesses (law enforcement, airline rep, traveling companion, random stranger). If denied witnesses, I will not go into the room unless physically forced to.
I will not "voluntarily surrender" any of the following: laptop, electronics including custom electronics which I travel with from time to time, cell phone, camera equipment, any digital media, prescription medication, or any other non-prohibited item worth more than about $25.
I will not delete photographs from my camera or phone on the request of anyone. Nobody at the airport, including LEOs, has the authority to delete a photograph. Ever.
Here's an odd one for you: I will not take off my eyeglasses. For various medical reasons, the safety from flying debris that polycarbonate eyeglasses provide is very important for me. I generally do not take my glasses off in public places, and I will not do so in an airport.
I will not provide more than one ID. I uses a passport card for domestic travel. I will not provide another ID if asked. The only way they are getting another ID from me is to rummage through all of my stuff looking for it.
I will not provide my mailing address or phone number to a screener. I will not voluntarily provide my mailing address to a LEO. If threatened with arrest, I will probably cave and provide the address to the LEO, but if the LEO turns the info over to TSA I will file a complaint against that officer for misuse of PII.
Though I add that I will fly by personal aircraft whenever possible/practical. I require new gloves for a groping. And I do loudly protest - to the point of causing the line to close down - if my possessions are out of my sight.
Jul 25, 2011, 2:22 pm
#18
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 627
The previous "I will not..." manifesto sounds like a perfect model, and I'll "steal" it.
Another poster just drew a line to the Civil Rights movement. I can think of some other parallels.
In some areas of the USA, the Civil Rights movement was extremely unpopular--at least among those who were allowed to vote (i.e., white people)--it's been said that the Civil Rights movement cost the Democratic Party their stronghold on the "Deep South".
In fact, I'd make a safe bet that there are people whose support for civil rights cost them quite a lot--their jobs, families, friends, and even marriages.
If we were in the Civil Rights era, what would you do if your spouse threatened you with divorce if you kept expressing your support for civil rights? Or if you kept coming home from work late because you're walking instead of taking the bus?
I feel the true test of boycotting flying/the TSA comes into play when it reaches the point where it costs someone something big. What happens if your spouse tells you that you're going to either get porno-scanned for a vacation to Hawaii or become single?
Another poster just drew a line to the Civil Rights movement. I can think of some other parallels.
In some areas of the USA, the Civil Rights movement was extremely unpopular--at least among those who were allowed to vote (i.e., white people)--it's been said that the Civil Rights movement cost the Democratic Party their stronghold on the "Deep South".
In fact, I'd make a safe bet that there are people whose support for civil rights cost them quite a lot--their jobs, families, friends, and even marriages.
If we were in the Civil Rights era, what would you do if your spouse threatened you with divorce if you kept expressing your support for civil rights? Or if you kept coming home from work late because you're walking instead of taking the bus?
I feel the true test of boycotting flying/the TSA comes into play when it reaches the point where it costs someone something big. What happens if your spouse tells you that you're going to either get porno-scanned for a vacation to Hawaii or become single?
Jul 25, 2011, 2:27 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,209
I won't fly to the US, and I have almost completely axed flights from NoS-equipped terminals here.
Jul 25, 2011, 2:37 pm
#20
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wild Wiltshire
Programs: Demoted to gold, Cats protection
Posts: 3,455
I will not go through the TSA's nude body scanners.
I will not let the TSA "touch my junk."
I will not go into a private room.
I will not be told that I cannot video record at the checkpoint.
Maybe you have more: maybe you want to commit to not letting the TSA touch your children. Maybe you have less: maybe your fight is only the molestation pat down and the nude body scanners don't really bother you.
But please, draw your own line, now, before you get to the checkpoint, and stick to it. Be a fighter, not a victim.
--Jon
Jul 25, 2011, 2:39 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,296
If you respond to terrorist attacks by changing your lifestyle, then the terrorists have beat you.
I think the same principle applies to TSA. If I respond to TSA's attacks on civil rights by changing my lifestyle, then TSA has beat me. (Bleep) that!
Also, see RedSnapper's points above -- I have never seen anyone protesting against TSA at an airport and, well, I originate all my flights from the world's busiest airport.
I think the same principle applies to TSA. If I respond to TSA's attacks on civil rights by changing my lifestyle, then TSA has beat me. (Bleep) that!
Also, see RedSnapper's points above -- I have never seen anyone protesting against TSA at an airport and, well, I originate all my flights from the world's busiest airport.
Jul 25, 2011, 2:43 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
In short ... there's more than one way to "fight" the TSA --- if that's even the right goal to be pursuing.
Jul 25, 2011, 3:03 pm
#23
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 436
The reason why not flying is not a cop-out is that it is a temporary lifestyle change designed to produce an effect (that is, force the airlines to lobby on our side), rather than an agreement to change one's lifestyle to avoid being violated.
It's not the method I choose. I fly this year about as much as I do last year, but each time I book a ticket, I know there's a chance I will not make it through security because I will not do the things I listed in my OP. IMO, taking the train makes a statement, but showing up at the airport and demanding my rights, even if it might delay my travels, is a more powerful statement.
It's all up to you how you choose to make your own statements. However, if at the end of the day your choice allows the TSA to violate you, I feel the statement you are making is ultimately one of compliance, no matter how many comment cards, letters, or Internet posts you write.
--Jon
It's not the method I choose. I fly this year about as much as I do last year, but each time I book a ticket, I know there's a chance I will not make it through security because I will not do the things I listed in my OP. IMO, taking the train makes a statement, but showing up at the airport and demanding my rights, even if it might delay my travels, is a more powerful statement.
It's all up to you how you choose to make your own statements. However, if at the end of the day your choice allows the TSA to violate you, I feel the statement you are making is ultimately one of compliance, no matter how many comment cards, letters, or Internet posts you write.
--Jon
Jul 25, 2011, 3:05 pm
#24
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Diamond (MM), Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 873
This one is an important one too. With a laptop bag, carry-on, bin for laptop and bin for shoes/liquids, it is quite a bit to watch. One agent always wants to pull me away for the pat-down while another gathers my stuff since apparently I'm not allowed to touch it (ridiculous since the whole airport has touched the bins themselves). I simply refuse though to be separated from my property and amusingly wait as 1 or 2 agents porter my stuff to the table and really don't care if it annoys the waiting groper. I've gone off more than once about that when directed to the puffers and told them to hold my stuff from going through the x-ray since I couldn't see who was stealing it from the other side.
Last edited by bonoman; Jul 25, 2011 at 3:06 pm Reason: needed a lesson on quoting a bold post
Jul 25, 2011, 3:08 pm
#25
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,786
If you respond to terrorist attacks by changing your lifestyle, then the terrorists have beat you.
I think the same principle applies to TSA. If I respond to TSA's attacks on civil rights by changing my lifestyle, then TSA has beat me. (Bleep) that!
Also, see RedSnapper's points above -- I have never seen anyone protesting against TSA at an airport and, well, I originate all my flights from the world's busiest airport.
I think the same principle applies to TSA. If I respond to TSA's attacks on civil rights by changing my lifestyle, then TSA has beat me. (Bleep) that!
Also, see RedSnapper's points above -- I have never seen anyone protesting against TSA at an airport and, well, I originate all my flights from the world's busiest airport.
There are more ways than one to protest... I choose to do it with my feet, with my wallet, and sending proof to all the places I used to fly (in the case of my annual trips, they can see I'm not BSing them because I'd flown them there for 4 years straight, and this time went without flying), and let THEM get enough of that to decide to stand up.
Until the AIRLINES reach a point where it's hurting them, it's not going to change.
Jul 25, 2011, 3:29 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,096
Short of not flying I support and have communicated with my representatives, question TSA whenever they do something not clearly published on their website, push back against unruly TSA employees, try to pick WTMD lines only and if forced to a WBI I Opt Out and try to make the TSA employee as uncomfortable as possible from that point forward.
I do not antagonize screeners unless their actions dictate such.
Jul 25, 2011, 3:36 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
This is unlikely to actually happen. To be effective, it would have to happen fast, and in a very big way. Like, 25% or more of passengers canceling all of their tickets today and screaming out loud why they did it.
Otherwise, what's going to happen is that the number who refuse to fly may slowly increase, but so are the numbers of Americans who do fly. The government can play its hand by having the FAA deliberately impede airline expansion - denying new routes, refusing airport expansions and gate transfers between airlines, and so forth. Capacity stays the same through artificial manipulation, demand grows, and the airlines profit. They're happy, so what do they care?
I don't doubt for a minute TSA or DHS's ability to resort to dirty tricks to get what they want.
Jul 25, 2011, 3:40 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: A bright and happy place
Posts: 68
I'm on the boycott team: I moved out of the US and now fly from my new home country, avoiding the US entirely. Obviously the TSA wasn't the only reason I left but it was the last straw.
And please bear in mind that not everyone can explain to their employer why they missed their flight. I don't have an employer; I have clients in the US. They want me to come to them. So far, I've dodged their requests. But at some point I'll have to go back, which requires flying, and if the TSA wants to feel me up again, they're going to feel me up again because my client needs me and I'm not going to let the beyond-ridiculous TSA hurt that relationship or my business. I won't be passively compliant, but my top priority is getting to the client.
And please bear in mind that not everyone can explain to their employer why they missed their flight. I don't have an employer; I have clients in the US. They want me to come to them. So far, I've dodged their requests. But at some point I'll have to go back, which requires flying, and if the TSA wants to feel me up again, they're going to feel me up again because my client needs me and I'm not going to let the beyond-ridiculous TSA hurt that relationship or my business. I won't be passively compliant, but my top priority is getting to the client.
Jul 25, 2011, 3:50 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,296
A lot of weeks I don't actually have to use the time to do those things, but even those weeks when the time gets wasted on TSA, I'm only losing 2 to 3 hours.
I view that time I spent dealing with TSA as the cost of being a citizen, plus those filed complaints ensure that I'll have standing once class-action lawsuits start.
Jul 25, 2011, 4:19 pm
#30
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,786
Until enough people get fed up, and say "NO, I'm not willing to play your reindeer games anymore", nothing will change.
Tilting at windmills? Probably. But I sleep well at night.