ORD: Woman Groped; Pregnant TSO working around radiation
Jul 20, 2011, 8:42 am
#76
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The same can be said for the TSA clerk performing the pat-down.
For all the traveler knows, the person patting them down is a thief, child molester, child porn distributor, kidnapper/rapist/suicidal nutjob, or kidnapper/suicidal nutjob.
For all the traveler knows, the person patting them down is a thief, child molester, child porn distributor, kidnapper/rapist/suicidal nutjob, or kidnapper/suicidal nutjob.
If only the same thinking were applied to the TSOs viewing the AIT images and performing the patdowns.
The only problem with this reasoning is that the checkpoints are likely already being recorded by surveillance cameras. The argument that Joe Passenger filming the checkpoint could be a pedophile could just as easily be applied to any TSA employee who has access to the checkpoint tapes. And last I checked, the TSO doesn't ask permission of the passenger to record him or her.
The only problem with this reasoning is that the checkpoints are likely already being recorded by surveillance cameras. The argument that Joe Passenger filming the checkpoint could be a pedophile could just as easily be applied to any TSA employee who has access to the checkpoint tapes. And last I checked, the TSO doesn't ask permission of the passenger to record him or her.
the possibility that a TSA staffer can be a paedophile doesn't therefore mean that I want to be filmed by a random stranger who might also be one.
let's not complicate the specific issue... I was responding to why filming might be considered creepy. I have given a reason why some people might think that.
in answering this specific question, the TSA staffer is irrelevant, only the filmer is being considered.
Being groped in public is far less concern, to me, than being filmed being groped by a stranger. The other people around me at the time I am being groped will forget over time. The person with it on film can watch it over and over again. There is a difference.
As for the surveillance cameras, I would hope there is some control in place to prevent wholescale copying of those tapes for private purposes.
Jul 20, 2011, 8:43 am
#77
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I am under no obligation to get anyone's permission to film them when they are walking around in the public.
In two weeks, I will be heading to the beach in Southern California for an afternoon and plan on taking my pocket video cam and point and shoot camera. I am sure the place will be packed. Are you suggesting that I have to get the permission of every person on the beach in order to film my day at the beach?
Absurd.
filming without the consent of the person IS creepy, we just can't trust the person filming without knowing them.
If you are so fearful about what someone may do with a photo or video of you, then stay out of the public realm.
Your fear is paranoia.
Jul 20, 2011, 8:49 am
#78
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 112
Of course, statistically speaking... the chances that your groper or the person sitting in that booth is a pervert, is FAR higher than a terrorist getting on your plane with the intention of crashing it into a building or setting a bomb off.
I'll take my chances with the terrorist. At least I can make an attempt to neutralize him. He's fair game. The TSA clerk isn't.
I'll take my chances with the terrorist. At least I can make an attempt to neutralize him. He's fair game. The TSA clerk isn't.
Jul 20, 2011, 8:53 am
#79
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
There is no context for a checkpoint groping where the screener and the TSA's actions are irrelevant. You can't remove them from the equation. Without their actions (groping, filming it) there would be no need for passengers to do so.
It really behooves anyone who is being filmed in a law enforcement situation to film themselves in addition to any other footage being taken. There may come a time when this young woman discovers that her procedure was inappropriately performed and this video may be all that is left of what was captured to document that.
And if one doesn't want to be filmed doing something in public, that is probably a place one should not enter.
It really behooves anyone who is being filmed in a law enforcement situation to film themselves in addition to any other footage being taken. There may come a time when this young woman discovers that her procedure was inappropriately performed and this video may be all that is left of what was captured to document that.
And if one doesn't want to be filmed doing something in public, that is probably a place one should not enter.
Jul 20, 2011, 8:55 am
#80
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In the U.S., this question has long been settled. The Supreme Court has made it very, very, very, very clear that you have ZERO expectation of privacy in a public space.
I am under no obligation to get anyone's permission to film them when they are walking around in the public.
In two weeks, I will be heading to the beach in Southern California for an afternoon and plan on taking my pocket video cam and point and shoot camera. I am sure the place will be packed. Are you suggesting that I have to get the permission of every person on the beach in order to film my day at the beach?
Absurd.
Trust them regarding what?
If you are so fearful about what someone may do with a photo or video of you, then stay out of the public realm.
Your fear is paranoia.
I am under no obligation to get anyone's permission to film them when they are walking around in the public.
In two weeks, I will be heading to the beach in Southern California for an afternoon and plan on taking my pocket video cam and point and shoot camera. I am sure the place will be packed. Are you suggesting that I have to get the permission of every person on the beach in order to film my day at the beach?
Absurd.
Trust them regarding what?
If you are so fearful about what someone may do with a photo or video of you, then stay out of the public realm.
Your fear is paranoia.
The law makes no difference to that element.
There is a difference between taking a picture of a person incidental to your main shot, rather than having a person as the subject. If the person is the subject then it is polite to ask their permission.
Would you just walk up to a girl in a bikini on the beach, stand in front of her, and take a picture without asking? Even if the law says you can?
Posters on these boards are worried about TSA staff being paedophiles... yet when I say i am worried about a random stranger filming me, or a girl or child at a checkpoint I am told I am being paranoid?
I cannot see how those two statements mesh.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:05 am
#81
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Just like your chances of being on a flight with an actual terrorist are almost infinitely lower than being involved in an automotive or bus accident on the way to the airport.
The TSA is a direct result of fearmongering and inappropriate response to risk management.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:09 am
#82
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As you saw in the video, Deborah Wegner approached and demanded that I stop filming. I spoke with the Office of Strategic Communication and they were very polite. They explained that I could film, that they were calling the supervisor at ORD to let him know I was filming and that filming was allowed, and that he should instruct the TSOs not to incorrectly claim that photography was prohibited.
^Please. It's been almost ten years now, plenty of time to seek counseling, alternative employment, etc. You will feel better, and so will the customers you serve.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:10 am
#83
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
I'm not specifically worried about pedophiles in the TSA, because I don't want these people touching anyone. Period.
If there is probable cause, get a police officer and let them handle it. If there isn't, move along. The TSA should not be involved in touching people.
If there is probable cause, get a police officer and let them handle it. If there isn't, move along. The TSA should not be involved in touching people.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:18 am
#84
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Even if they are filming for the greater good of liberty - if you don't know the person you're filming then it could be creepy for them.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:21 am
#85
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I disagree. If there is a man filming a child being patted down, then there is a very HIGH chance they could be a paedophile. I mean - what are the chances that some random stranger would be filming a little girl getting groped 'just in case' it's needed later as evidence?
Even if they are filming for the greater good of liberty - if you don't know the person you're filming then it could be creepy for them.
Even if they are filming for the greater good of liberty - if you don't know the person you're filming then it could be creepy for them.
The probability that anyone filming at a checkpoint is hoping for something juicy to put on Youtube is a LOT higher than someone filming for "private use."
Jul 20, 2011, 9:24 am
#86
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I disagree. If there is a man filming a child being patted down, then there is a very HIGH chance they could be a paedophile. I mean - what are the chances that some random stranger would be filming a little girl getting groped 'just in case' it's needed later as evidence?
Even if they are filming for the greater good of liberty - if you don't know the person you're filming then it could be creepy for them.
Even if they are filming for the greater good of liberty - if you don't know the person you're filming then it could be creepy for them.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:26 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,145
Awesome! ^
Yet another example of the paranoia that seems to grip many UA FAs. Who wants to bet that if I was to press that person for exactly how video or photography made things "unsafe", the conversation would devolve into "I knew someone that was a victim on 9/11!"
Please. It's been almost ten years now, plenty of time to seek counseling, alternative employment, etc. You will feel better, and so will the customers you serve.
^Yet another example of the paranoia that seems to grip many UA FAs. Who wants to bet that if I was to press that person for exactly how video or photography made things "unsafe", the conversation would devolve into "I knew someone that was a victim on 9/11!"
Please. It's been almost ten years now, plenty of time to seek counseling, alternative employment, etc. You will feel better, and so will the customers you serve.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:31 am
#89
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Arizona
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(sigh)
it's only going to get worse.
We've got resident TSO (real or alleged) posters and TSA hinting at big changes to come. Change we can believe in? Ha. Been there, done that last fall, won't happen again. Y'all got your laughs.
The last round of changes came last fall, and I think you have to listen hard to hear anyone who doesn't work for the agency or benefit from the NoS who will say the changes have been good ones (or even effective ones).
I think the next round of changes will be even worse. Pistole and Nappy realize that it really doesn't matter if there are negative stories every day about TSA. It doesn't matter if they are true. It doesn't matter, because there's nothing anyone can or will do to improve the situation.
it's only going to get worse.
We've got resident TSO (real or alleged) posters and TSA hinting at big changes to come. Change we can believe in? Ha. Been there, done that last fall, won't happen again. Y'all got your laughs.
The last round of changes came last fall, and I think you have to listen hard to hear anyone who doesn't work for the agency or benefit from the NoS who will say the changes have been good ones (or even effective ones).
I think the next round of changes will be even worse. Pistole and Nappy realize that it really doesn't matter if there are negative stories every day about TSA. It doesn't matter if they are true. It doesn't matter, because there's nothing anyone can or will do to improve the situation.
Jul 20, 2011, 9:31 am
#90
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At least two child molesters and one child porn purveyor were working as TSA clerks performing "pat-downs."
I am as yet unaware of any instance of a person filming at a checkpoint discovered to be a pedophile or even ephebophile.