:confused:

Just calculated the cost in gas of driving to Seattle and back in a car getting 40 mpg. Came to $505. How come airlines charge $700 and up when they are carrying full planes. And then say "we can't make any money".

If it's a cost thing, I get that. If it's a desire to see the sights, I get that. Your original post, however, didn't mention either of these factors. Your primary concern appeared to be evading (Are they chasing you?) the TSA.

You guys are making the assumption that you will absolutely have to go through an NOS and would thus be forced to opt out and be patted down. Using just the information found in the TS/S forum, you can certainly reduce that risk well below 100%. I've, so far, never been patted down and have had to go through the NoS twice, where I cussed out the TSA both times as well as the folks at the United RCC and at the gate.

No one should have to do that. It's not right. I agree with you there. But, I'm not one to be bullied by my own government into changing my life. I used to have a three-hour radius on the fly/drive decision tree, it's now 4 hours, maybe a bit more. But I'm not going to sit on a bus for two days or take a train for 24 hours or drive 20 hours just to avoid the chance that I'll have to do an NoS run.

Well, color me uninformed :o . In my defense Amtrak might have thought to put a little note on the schedule to that effect @:-) .

I don't think someone whose experiences are likely mostly at YYZ is particularly qualified to discuss the TSA excesses. As for losing one's mind, is that better or worse than losing one's dignity ?

BINGO.

Too bad the OP wasn't caught up in a VIPR operation on the bus or train. Then he'd have no choice but to drive.

As far as health concerns, I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have a bit of radiation over breathing diesel fumes for a few days.

Too bad OP lives in a country where idiots just love bending over for whatever TSA has coming for them.

Wow. True supporter of a police state you are. Maybe China or N. Korea would be a home you could be happy about.

No, you completely miss the point.

I'm not a supporter of the implementation of the policies, but I'm also not paranoid.

In addition, I also know that whining on a forum such as this one does no good. We are lucky to live in a country where there are ways to get things changed, but I don't think that "paranoid whining on FT" is one of the ways.

Actually, we're not making that assumption. At least, I'm not. If it were just me, I'd go to the airport prepared with a plan. However, I have children. While I would feel comfortable opting out, repeating the TSA's instructions replacing words like "resistance" with "labia", filming, calling a police officer if necessary, I would not feel comfortable subjecting my children to that. Or even risking subjecting my children to that. I can stand up for myself but children change the equation enormously.

I am willing to go the airport, try to SDOO and leave if my children get selected for the NoS. My husband is not willing to leave. So we don't fly. Great choice.

yyzvoyageur may well not be a native English speaker, just as you and I are not native English speakers. I can understand why someone may have difficulty understanding several of the posts written by non-native English speakers here on FT, but I welcome the diversity.

Most of us are involved in "other ways" as well. whether they are any more effective remains to be seen.

Calling this whining just shows a lack of understanding of the role of political free speech in a free country. Just how do you think the general feeling of the people about TSA's strip searches and invasive body groping would come to the notice of TSA and politicians if not through mediums of public opinion such as this one? Write in campaigns, calls are good, but only part of the picture. Perhaps you'd prefer direct assaults on TSA personnel to get the point across.

There's no paranoia. Early on, Pistole, Napolitano and other management personnel for the DHS and TSA made comments that appeared that they would expand their airport processes, but avoided stating roads, highways, bus and rail stations. Some were saying at the time that that was coming even though it wasn't directly stated by the TSA/DHS. Lo and behold, here we are, they've already started, how far are they willing to push that? Can anyone here answer with certainty?

I still feel that this can be changed, that's why I haven't up and left this country. Yet. I've emailed, faxed, written, and spoke to my representatives regarding this absurdity, and will continue until such point that I don't think it will change. I served nearly long enough to retire from the military, but I won't give that much time for this to change. I've already made a job change, and turned down 2 better paying jobs to avoid travel, so I'm doing much more than just chatting up a message board. A minor irritation to me this is not, and quite frankly, I'm p'd off.

TSA does not operate in that particular "country of idiots".

What would lead you in that direction?

The OP's syntax, vocabulary, and sentence structure are indicative of someone who is not a native English speaker. Your posts on the other hand do not reflect that, but based on your location and user name I was simply pointing out to OP that there are reasons why one may have difficultly understand the content and intent of his/her posts. (If anything, I suspect that you may well be bilingual or better)