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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   DHS in more trouble (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1191102-dhs-more-trouble.html)

Combat Medic Mar 5, 2011 12:11 pm
DHS in more trouble
 
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the operation, said that 1,765 guns were sold to suspected smugglers during a 15-month period of the investigation. Of those, 797 were recovered on both sides of the border, including 195 in Mexico after they were used in crimes, collected during arrests or intercepted through other law enforcement operations.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...84,print.story

I'm also reading reports that one of these weapons that the ATF knowingly allowed to be transferred to the cartels was used to kill a CBP agent.

Can we just dismantle DHS now?

Caradoc Mar 5, 2011 12:14 pm
Originally Posted by Combat Medic (Post 15980809)
Can we just dismantle DHS now?
I wish. At the very least, get the Coast Guard out from under the DHS umbrella before they're completely infected by the sheer incompetence displayed so far by everyone on Napolitano's watch - including Pistole, and every blue-shirted moron working under him.

goalie Mar 5, 2011 1:18 pm
Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 15980825)
I wish. At the very least, get the Coast Guard out from under the DHS umbrella before they're completely infected by the sheer incompetence displayed so far by everyone on Napolitano's watch - including Pistole, and every blue-shirted moron working under him.
Agreed ^

N830MH Mar 5, 2011 1:35 pm
Originally Posted by goalie (Post 15981075)
Agreed ^
Yeah, this is unacceptable for the behaviors. I do not appreciate it for DHS is trying to smugglers the guns into USA without US customs explanations. They should go to jails for that. Naughty to border patrols. It was too many problems by the drugs cartels. This should have to stopped being killed or smugglers the guns into USA.

WindOfFreedom Mar 5, 2011 1:49 pm
Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 15980825)
I wish. At the very least, get the Coast Guard out from under the DHS umbrella before they're completely infected by the sheer incompetence displayed so far by everyone on Napolitano's watch - including Pistole, and every blue-shirted moron working under him.
^^^ Absolutely right on.

gsoltso Mar 5, 2011 2:37 pm
Perhaps I am a bit slow in reading, or comprehending... Why is DHS in trouble over this operation? I was under the impression that ATF was under the Treasury department.

Tom M. Mar 5, 2011 2:48 pm
Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 15981390)
Perhaps I am a bit slow in reading, or comprehending... Why is DHS in trouble over this operation? I was under the impression that ATF was under the Treasury department.
Border Security

The Department of Homeland Security prevents and investigates illegal movements across our borders, including the smuggling of people, drugs, cash, and weapons

gsoltso Mar 5, 2011 2:59 pm
Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 15981450)
Border Security

The Department of Homeland Security prevents and investigates illegal movements across our borders, including the smuggling of people, drugs, cash, and weapons
But this was an ATF operation. DHS may have assisted in some aspects, but this was an ATF operation.

Tom M. Mar 5, 2011 3:45 pm
Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 15981499)
But this was an ATF operation. DHS may have assisted in some aspects, but this was an ATF operation.
DHS has responsibility- period.

If they assisted in some aspects, the situation is even worse.

RollerGirl Mar 5, 2011 4:24 pm
Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 15980825)
I wish. At the very least, get the Coast Guard out from under the DHS umbrella before they're completely infected by the sheer incompetence displayed so far by everyone on Napolitano's watch - including Pistole, and every blue-shirted moron working under him.
My Dad spent 6 years in the Coast Guard during WWII and he would be rolling over in his grave if he knew that his beloved Coast Guard was under the command of these idiots, especially that woman. :(

RollerGirl

Caradoc Mar 5, 2011 4:26 pm
Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 15981450)
The Department of Homeland Security prevents and investigates illegal movements across our borders, including the smuggling of people, drugs, cash, and weapons
Well, that's what they (and CBP) claim to do. So far, they've been a rather horrific failure.

gsoltso Mar 5, 2011 5:08 pm
Wow. So ... DHS, that may or may not have even been involved in this operation, except to possibly lose a border patrol officer to one of the guns sent out by the ATF, during an ATF planned and implemented operation... is responsible. Wow.

Tom M. Mar 5, 2011 5:37 pm
Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 15981968)
Wow. So ... DHS, that may or may not have even been involved in this operation, except to possibly lose a border patrol officer to one of the guns sent out by the ATF, during an ATF planned and implemented operation... is responsible. Wow.
Yes they are.

They have a responsibility. They failed in that responsibility. Pure and simple.

You have responsibilities on your job. If you fail, are you responsible?

Ellie M Mar 5, 2011 5:49 pm
Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 15982075)
Yes they are.

They have a responsibility. They failed in that responsibility. Pure and simple.

You have responsibilities on your job. If you fail, are you responsible?
I can't believe I'm about to stick up for DHS, but what responsibility did they fail at? I don't see anything in the article indicating a DHS failure. A US government failure, yes.

Tom M. Mar 5, 2011 5:56 pm
Originally Posted by Ellie M (Post 15982110)
I can't believe I'm about to stick up for DHS, but what responsibility did they fail at? I don't see anything in the article indicating a DHS failure. A US government failure, yes.
What are DHS responsibilities include "the smuggling of people, drugs, cash, and weapons"

Solely responsible? no. But responsible, yes.


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