SWCPHX

How naive. Have you seen a vehicle code book? If an officer can't find "probable cause" or a violation to pull somebody over after following them for a mile or two at most, they're not creative or just not interested in pulling you over to talk to you. Everything from weaving in a lane to 3-4 mph over the posted limit will do the trick. Also you took that turn a little wide works as well as any and all equipment violations such as cracked windshields, non working license plate lights. Take your pick.

Do you hyperventilate and panic over roadside sobriety checkpoints if you haven't been drinking? If you haven't been drinking and don't appear to be impaired at all, what is the rational basis for your fear, panic, and hyperanxiety?

And if you honestly do hyperventilate and panic over checkpoints (Border Patrol, sobriety, whatever) did you ever think that your anxiety over the matter is translating to body language which makes you appear more suspicious or interesting to a LEO? Seriously if you have this much anxiety over checkpoints for things that you're not guilty of or doing, the US Constitution isn't going to help you much, I think you need to see a therapist.

docmonkey

Yeah, this is disturbing, especially when members of certain races are pulled over disproportionately, but at least local police departments and county sheriff are somewhat accountable to locals.

SWCPHX

Please don't take my post to mean that I condone the behavior of using chicken s violations to stop and talk to people, but it happens.

Again, not condoning it, just saying it happens.

Herb687

Yes.


I happen to like the supposed freedom against unreasonable search and seizure. I also happen to like getting to my destination quickly and without unnecessary stops. If I don't appear to be impaired at all then I should not be stopped by law enforcement.

If infringements of our precious liberty and creeping ever closer to being a police state aren't worth hyperventilation and panic then what is?

Where do YOU draw the line?

SWCPHX

I'll worry about it when I turn to a life of crime, so I guess that would be the day after never.

HKG_Flyer1

SWCPHX

A Border Patrol checkpoint is a violation of your privacy worth getting this worked up over as some other posters are, seriously? I have to pass through 1 if not 2 of these on the way to and from San Diego each way on I-8. Whenever they ask where are you going, well gee considering that my logical choices are San Diego going West or Phoenix/Tucson going East, who cares if they know where I'm going, where else am I going on the 8?? Replace the 8 with I-20 and it's the same situation.

DevilDog438

Of course, we also have ME, NH, MA, RI, NJ, DE, and FL at 100%.

N1120A

I'm sorry, but the Courts disagree with you on this. I'm talking about the search issue, not the immigration issue. The agent can send someone to secondary for the immigration issue after developing a reasonable suspicion of legal status. They cannot if they suspect drugs or anything of the sort. In fact, and I've pointed this out before, the Supreme Court has said that feeling around someone's bag and then getting permission to look inside is not kosher. The agent has no business asking other questions at the stop, because it goes beyond the limited seizure allowed by the Supreme Court.

Good luck getting an answer out of FB there.

essxjay

But who's splitting hairs?

The Constitution-Free Zone should be 0%.

DevilDog438

Not disagreeing with you, just adding data points.

studentff

Or it will be the day the government re-classifies your career, hobbies, or day-to-day activities as an actual or de-facto crime.

"Minor" examples: Many of those who enjoy photography, rail-fanning (watching trains), plane spotting, and mobile/portable amateur radio operation can tell stories of being treated like a criminal by the cops. Of course, there are more serious examples like banning/restricting a religious or political group.

Part of the beauty of the search restrictions is that they prevent cops from ever seeing perfectly harmless/legal things that some might construe as suspicious. E.g,. Kathy Parker at PHL would never have been harassed by the cops about her "almost sequential" checks if the TSA and cops hadn't gone on an unreasonable fishing expedition in her wallet. E.g., I start my annual vegetable garden from seed under lights in my basement every spring, which some un-educated people might construe of evidence of a drug operation, but as long as the cops aren't in my basement, I don't have to explain my tomatoes or why I think they're better than the plants I can buy at Home Depot.

Global_Hi_Flyer

I believe you omitted the fact that passengers legally traveling are treated as criminal by DHS and TSA. Virtual strip searches and "enhanced" pat-downs that are more aggressive than someone entering prison are prime examples.

Ari

Actually, weaving in a lane has been tossed out by most courts to reach the issue in DUI cases. Has happened at least a dozen times.

Innocent people have been charged with DUI before; it is expensive and embarassing.

I'm not sure how that would change things . . .

Maybe. But if these things didn't exist in the first place (i.e. if the Supreme Court hadn't made an exception to warrant rule in the place, this wouldn't an issue, now would it?

I think you've lost perspective.

SWCPHX

The weaving in a lane could still be used as PC to stop the car and talk to the occupant(s) though. And the number of innocent people charged with DUI who are in fact innocent, statistically small and insignificant and shouldn't cause a rational human being to be anxious over such an encounter.

If it isn't already, I really feel that the irrational fear of police checkpoints or cops in general should be included in the next edition of the DSM.

I'll agree with some of that. But in the context of hyper sensitive security around airports, train stations, etc (not saying that the security makes sense or that it's necessary/right) I don't see a problem with a security guard or an officer making a casual contact with a railfan or plane spotter to say hi and make sure they're harmless. Are there overbearing pushy cops, absolutely. But I think that only the most extreme worst examples of contact and behavior by LEOs and security get posted on FT and that thousands of plane spotters or railfans are not harassed needlessly or treated in such a manner everyday across the country.

I really don't see much of a difference between an officer or security talking to a railfan or plane spotter than a police officer assigned to your neighborhood or mine as their beat stopping to talk to somebody that they've never seen before just to check them out. Is the person committing a crime walking through our neighborhoods, no. Do they have a reason to be there, maybe maybe not. Is it good work by the officer to at least try to stop and say hi and see what they're up to? Absolutely!

The sequential checks thing for Kathy Parker at PHL was ridiculously over the top, she was no threat to travel, never should have happened. That was an example of a TSA goofball trying to catch the big embezzler or something.