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Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]

Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]

Old Aug 30, 2010, 9:09 am
  #106  
 
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Opted out this am at Dfw and would have to say it was the most professional response to date with rolling pat down and etd.

Can't say the same about the document checker who was a bit over the top in assessing documents and insincere bantering.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 9:12 am
  #107  
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Originally Posted by dlflyer2

Can't say the same about the document checker who was a bit over the top in assessing documents and insincere bantering.
That's why I ignore them 100% of the time.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 10:21 am
  #108  
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I was not permitted to opt out in RIC on Saturday evening. I told the WTMD moat dragon that I would undergo a secondary and pat-down, but that I would not go through the Nude-o-Scope. She said it was NOT an option. If I wasn't at T-10 minutes for my flight to board, I would have stood firm.

I went over to the Nude-o-Scope and the agent there said, "Have you taken everything out of your pockets?" I explained that NO, I still had my wallet, as I was not about to be separated from it. I further explained that I would be willing to go through pat-down and secondary, but he also insisted that was not an option; I believe his exact words were, "You can get a pat-down, but only after you go through this scan."

He did at least take my wallet over to the x-ray, have me come over, watched it run through, then immediately collected it and brought it to me at the Nude-o-Scan and let me hold it there. I suppose at least the guy was willing to understand my concern that I not have my wallet out of my sight, and worked with me as well he could on that. (Very stupid though that the Nude-o-Scope requires everything go through x-ray, including things which could go through the WTMD no problem. You'd think if the Nude-o-Scope were so effing great, it would be able to deal with a wallet.)

I did keep my contact lenses in my pocket. I figured if they asked why I dissed them on that and made me miss my flight, I'd just get a rental car and drive home; I wasn't about to let someone else handle something I put in my eyes, even if just the case they were in. FWIW, the lens case caused no problems at the Nude-o-Scan (I was expecting them to think they had the BIG CATCH (tm) and a liquid bomber on their hands).

If I hadn't been so short on time, I would have demanded supervisors like crazy, but this was the last flight of the day and was boarding very shortly.

At this point, I suspect an e-mail complaint to TSA will go nowhere.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 10:30 am
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasCableGuy
I honestly wouldn't even know what to complain about: Is the back of the hand a requirement for the sensitive areas? Must they verbalize an offer for a private screening? Are they supposed to go over the genitals or not?

This is my second patdown from declining a WBI and probably the 4th overall (2 others being pulled from line at random). Each has been a different experience. I don't recall anything remarkable about the randoms other than they seemed more like a casual patdown that involved normal patting of the clothes - not deep body rubbing.

My earlier WBI-skipping patdown at BOS - while somewhat unnerving due to the crowd of TSOs observing -- was otherwise cordial. The guy there used the back of his hand for almost half my body and communicated to sure there were no surprises. This TSO was rough and said nothing. I know he felt me jump but continued on as if nothing happened. There wasn't any pause or eye contact.

Although he seemed pretty gruff or angry from the beginning, I didn't get the feeling that the surprise grab was vindictive. It just seemed like he didn't any qualms about going over that area. Which goes back to my earlier question: What *are* the procedures/policies in this regard?
Were I you, I would HAVE to file a complaint, if only to register the objection of a reasonable person to undergo such treatment. I know it's a PITA, but you might want to reconsider. I'm sorry you had to go through this, and thanks for reporting your experience here.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 10:38 am
  #110  
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Originally Posted by mozgytog
They had no intention of getting an actual cop. They just wanted me to stop telling people that they could opt out. I called their bluff, ignored them, outthe WBI out of co
Ission for ten minutes because it took 4 smurfs to deal with me.

Not half bad for 630 am.
nicely done ^ and two questions....

did you notice any other pax "taking your advice" and opting out

so if, you're not allowed to tell other pax that they can opt out (in other words, going thru the nude-o-scope is voluntary), where was the supposed to be posted signage stating that going thru the nude-o-scope is in fact voluntary? (and if said signage was visible, did you "just happen to point it out to your gaggle of smurfs? )
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 11:08 am
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by exerda
I was not permitted to opt out in RIC on Saturday evening. I told the WTMD moat dragon that I would undergo a secondary and pat-down, but that I would not go through the Nude-o-Scope. She said it was NOT an option. If I wasn't at T-10 minutes for my flight to board, I would have stood firm.

If I hadn't been so short on time, I would have demanded supervisors like crazy, but this was the last flight of the day and was boarding very shortly.

At this point, I suspect an e-mail complaint to TSA will go nowhere.
Don't email a complaint. Write a hard-copy letter saying that you were forced to use the WBI, even though you repeatedly stated that you were exercising your right to opt out. Keep it short, don't bother about the wallet and stuff; not allowing a passenger to opt out is a clear violation of TSA stated policy. It's good if you have names, otherwise date and time.

Send it (certified) to the manager and security director at the RIC, copy to TSA in DC and to your congresspersons.

It's more of a hassle than just emailing (duh, that's why we invented email ), but it only costs a couple of dollars and creates a formal paper trail for your complaint.

Just to save you a little time:

Manager: JON MATHIASEN
Federal security director: ANNIE NELSON

1 RICHARD E BYRD TERMINAL DR
RICHMOND, VA 23250

You can get the name and address of the manager of any airport here:

https://airports-gis.faa.gov/airportsgis/airportLookup/

As far as I know, you have to google ""federal security director" airport-name" to find an individual name for the security director, but you can always just put "Attn: Federal Security Director" in the address instead.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 11:25 am
  #112  
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Originally Posted by exerda
I was not permitted to opt out in RIC on Saturday evening. I told the WTMD moat dragon that I would undergo a secondary and pat-down, but that I would not go through the Nude-o-Scope. She said it was NOT an option. If I wasn't at T-10 minutes for my flight to board, I would have stood firm.

I went over to the Nude-o-Scope and the agent there said, "Have you taken everything out of your pockets?" I explained that NO, I still had my wallet, as I was not about to be separated from it. I further explained that I would be willing to go through pat-down and secondary, but he also insisted that was not an option; I believe his exact words were, "You can get a pat-down, but only after you go through this scan."

He did at least take my wallet over to the x-ray, have me come over, watched it run through, then immediately collected it and brought it to me at the Nude-o-Scan and let me hold it there. I suppose at least the guy was willing to understand my concern that I not have my wallet out of my sight, and worked with me as well he could on that. (Very stupid though that the Nude-o-Scope requires everything go through x-ray, including things which could go through the WTMD no problem. You'd think if the Nude-o-Scope were so effing great, it would be able to deal with a wallet.)

I did keep my contact lenses in my pocket. I figured if they asked why I dissed them on that and made me miss my flight, I'd just get a rental car and drive home; I wasn't about to let someone else handle something I put in my eyes, even if just the case they were in. FWIW, the lens case caused no problems at the Nude-o-Scan (I was expecting them to think they had the BIG CATCH (tm) and a liquid bomber on their hands).

If I hadn't been so short on time, I would have demanded supervisors like crazy, but this was the last flight of the day and was boarding very shortly.

At this point, I suspect an e-mail complaint to TSA will go nowhere.
Please, file a complaint! I'd also contact the media. More stories like this will hopefully help stall the NoS installations, and persuade more people to opt-out!! What ___ wipes!
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 11:47 am
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by exerda
I was not permitted to opt out in RIC on Saturday evening. I told the WTMD moat dragon that I would undergo a secondary and pat-down, but that I would not go through the Nude-o-Scope. She said it was NOT an option. If I wasn't at T-10 minutes for my flight to board, I would have stood firm.
I opted out two weeks ago at RIC. They made a big fuss that it was perfectly safe and that I was being silly. When I still refused they had to turn on the WTMD since it must not have been used all day. It took about a minute to warm up and they had to test it a few times before I could go through.

Belt and shoes were off and all pockets had to be emptied. They graciously picked up my computer and bag and carried them over to be swabbed where I could watch them. Got the full pat down and was on my way.

It is going to be a long fall........
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 11:59 am
  #114  
 
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Nude-o-scope was in action at the ORD T3 AA priority checkpoint this morning at around 0545. I stated that I opted out, and the gate smurf got on his radio for another smurf to pat me down. Walked through the WBI only after I was assured that it wasn't active and held on the other side for patdown.

The patdown smurf initially seemed to have some sense in that he switched gloves without prompting and let me keep in line of sight of my gear. The patdown, however, was the most aggressive patdown I've had, and that includes CDG and FRA. In fact, it was very akin to an EPW (prisoner of war) search in its aggressiveness. The smurf used his palms and grabbed my rear multiple times and poked around my front pretty firmly (I was wearing 5.11 tactical pants, so maybe his justification was to "thoroughly search" the rear slash pockets on them, but maybe he just hadn't got any action in awhile.). I had my passport, boarding pass, earplugs, and eye shade in one of my cargo pockets and removed these so the smurf could glance at them, but did not hand them over at first.

This is where it got even more interesting. The smurf demanded that he search my documents, and I declined citing the 4th Amendment. He went away in a huff and got a two striper. This two striper then got in my face and demanded to know what I was "concealing." I stated that I complied with the search but that I was not going to give up my Constitutional rights concerning my documents. This really ticked him off and I got several variants of "do you want to fly today?" By this time, the explosives test of patdown smurf's gloves came up negative. Two striper, however, thought it would be cool to yank my papers out of my hand, flip through my passport, and make more snide comments about how I was "trying to hide something." At that point, the smurfs backed off, I got my gear back and cleared the checkpoint onto the concourse, as I was too tired and angry to deal with that nonsense further.

Like Italy98, I've done my time in the Army, and I remember vividly the Oath of Enlistment and what it means. I find TSAs disregard for the Constitution disgusting, and I was this morning, and still am, pretty ashamed to be an American traveling in a country that seems to have lost its soul.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 12:05 pm
  #115  
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Originally Posted by uavking
Nude-o-scope was in action at the ORD T3 AA priority checkpoint this morning at around 0545. I stated that I opted out, and the gate smurf got on his radio for another smurf to pat me down. Walked through the WBI only after I was assured that it wasn't active and held on the other side for patdown.

The patdown smurf initially seemed to have some sense in that he switched gloves without prompting and let me keep in line of sight of my gear. The patdown, however, was the most aggressive patdown I've had, and that includes CDG and FRA. In fact, it was very akin to an EPW (prisoner of war) search in its aggressiveness. The smurf used his palms and grabbed my rear multiple times and poked around my front pretty firmly (I was wearing 5.11 tactical pants, so maybe his justification was to "thoroughly search" the rear slash pockets on them, but maybe he just hadn't got any action in awhile.). I had my passport, boarding pass, earplugs, and eye shade in one of my cargo pockets and removed these so the smurf could glance at them, but did not hand them over at first.

This is where it got even more interesting. The smurf demanded that he search my documents, and I declined citing the 4th Amendment. He went away in a huff and got a two striper. This two striper then got in my face and demanded to know what I was "concealing." I stated that I complied with the search but that I was not going to give up my Constitutional rights concerning my documents. This really ticked him off and I got several variants of "do you want to fly today?" By this time, the explosives test of patdown smurf's gloves came up negative. Two striper, however, thought it would be cool to yank my papers out of my hand, flip through my passport, and make more snide comments about how I was "trying to hide something." At that point, the smurfs backed off, I got my gear back and cleared the checkpoint onto the concourse, as I was too tired and angry to deal with that nonsense further.

Like Italy98, I've done my time in the Army, and I remember vividly the Oath of Enlistment and what it means. I find TSAs disregard for the Constitution disgusting, and I was this morning, and still am, pretty ashamed to be an American traveling in a country that seems to have lost its soul.
Please file a complaint against that scumbag "two striper" and for being another one for groped without probable cause. 1-866-289-9673
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 12:49 pm
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by uavking
Nude-o-scope was in action at the ORD T3 AA priority checkpoint this morning at around 0545. I stated that I opted out, and the gate smurf got on his radio for another smurf to pat me down. Walked through the WBI only after I was assured that it wasn't active and held on the other side for patdown.

(cut out the middle)

Like Italy98, I've done my time in the Army, and I remember vividly the Oath of Enlistment and what it means. I find TSAs disregard for the Constitution disgusting, and I was this morning, and still am, pretty ashamed to be an American traveling in a country that seems to have lost its soul.
I'd perhaps clean up the terminology a little , but I think this is an excellent letter. If you got names, it would be good to include them. Please don't let it drop.

Here is some contact information (certified US mail doesn't get "lost"):

Federal Security Director: Kathleen Petrowsky
Manager: ROSEMARIE S. ANDOLINO

O'HARE AIRPORT
BOX 66142
CHICAGO, IL 60666
.
You can get the US mail and email address of your congressperson at

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml (House)

https://www.senate.gov/general/conta...nators_cfm.cfm (Senate)
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 1:05 pm
  #117  
 
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Possible medical conditions for opt out?

Seems to me that there may be some medical conditions that would preclude the use of these machines.

Personally, I think that my rotator cuff injury could preclude me from having to raise my arms. Haven't used it yet and it probably wouldn't go over well with the "tsa stormtroopers" insisting that you must.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 2:48 pm
  #118  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins
The courts have ruled consistently that First Amendment rights to free speech may be abridged by the government --- but only if the government has a clear and compelling interest in doing so, uses the least restrictive means to do so, and does so in an equitable manner.
TS/S regulars are aware of restricted contexts and test case exercises. You're not suggesting the OP's speech isn't protected until explicitly ruled on?

Last edited by essxjay; Aug 30, 2010 at 2:57 pm
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 4:38 pm
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by exerda
I was not permitted to opt out in RIC on Saturday evening. I told the WTMD moat dragon that I would undergo a secondary and pat-down, but that I would not go through the Nude-o-Scope. She said it was NOT an option. If I wasn't at T-10 minutes for my flight to board, I would have stood firm.

I went over to the Nude-o-Scope and the agent there said, "Have you taken everything out of your pockets?" I explained that NO, I still had my wallet, as I was not about to be separated from it. I further explained that I would be willing to go through pat-down and secondary, but he also insisted that was not an option; I believe his exact words were, "You can get a pat-down, but only after you go through this scan."

He did at least take my wallet over to the x-ray, have me come over, watched it run through, then immediately collected it and brought it to me at the Nude-o-Scan and let me hold it there. I suppose at least the guy was willing to understand my concern that I not have my wallet out of my sight, and worked with me as well he could on that. (Very stupid though that the Nude-o-Scope requires everything go through x-ray, including things which could go through the WTMD no problem. You'd think if the Nude-o-Scope were so effing great, it would be able to deal with a wallet.)

I did keep my contact lenses in my pocket. I figured if they asked why I dissed them on that and made me miss my flight, I'd just get a rental car and drive home; I wasn't about to let someone else handle something I put in my eyes, even if just the case they were in. FWIW, the lens case caused no problems at the Nude-o-Scan (I was expecting them to think they had the BIG CATCH (tm) and a liquid bomber on their hands).

If I hadn't been so short on time, I would have demanded supervisors like crazy, but this was the last flight of the day and was boarding very shortly.

At this point, I suspect an e-mail complaint to TSA will go nowhere.
Send a complaint to Sen. Warner and Sen. Webb as well as your local congresscritter (mine is Connolly). I have written the offices of all three within the last week, and expect to make a follow-up visit shortly. The more letters they get from more people, the greater the chance is they will actually do something.
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Old Aug 30, 2010, 6:51 pm
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by VegasCableGuy
I'm not trying to throw the TSOs at OMA under a bus - I've been through there many times before the AIT system was installed and they'd always been professional and courteous. This was the first time I'd noted a delay, barkers and general aggravation with the staff. For those unfamiliar, OMA terminals are small enough to where there usually isn't waiting or related stress at the CP. It's been one or two lines/WTMD at B gates - now split between the AIT system and one WTMD. The CP used to remind me of a muni airport.

I'm honestly a little surprised at the replies regarding the contact with my "sensitive areas" (as a BOS TSO described it). At the time it seemed somewhat of a side note of an overall process that was mildly unpleasant and uncoordinated. The contact was surprising but not traumatizing. I assumed that at least a few other people here might have received attention that was similarly intimate through opt-out, random or unresolved WBI.

Note: I might have somewhat of a thicker skin than others after suffering routine indignities in the military. My drug test each 90 days required a uniformed minder at arms length watching the process in graphic detail. These TSA patdowns (really rubdowns) don't seem bad in comparison. However, it's obvious that others can have a huge problem with this treatment and I don't blame them. I opt-out because I have 4th amendment issues with the feds doing mass imaging (strip searches). The body groping isn't much better. WTMD is sufficient for everyone else going in so I'm not pleased with this unusual attention for choosing not to play.

I don't hold a grudge against anyone directly (including Mr. Gruff) but I'm very concerned that the TSA organization as a whole is acting without accountability to anyone. It's been pointed out that my TSO seemingly bypassed several procedures and broke policy with the (lack of) communication and the manner in which the search was conducted (what was touched & front vs back of the hand). However, as almost anyone can attest there are often disparities with TSA policies/procedures between airports. (Keep your pass out, put it away, shoes on the belt, shoes in the bin, route people to AIT or turn it off, how/why a patdown is done, whatever). Either these differences are intentional (keep people guessing what the procedure of the day will be) or it reflects a lack of standardization and training. Having to complain to the TSA about the TSA seems counterproductive.

I'm pretty sure my experience was a simply a result of poor training/procedures - they had no place to put me when I opted-out and it seemed to cause a break down in processing (at least with the imager). If I was a large guy the WTMD line would have been blocked as well. I wouldn't consider a criminal complaint for the body contact just because this TSO sucked at his job - I put the blame squarely on TSA itself. As I mentioned before I didn't think it was punitive for opting out; I just don't think he knew what he was supposed to be doing. There are supervisors there and that see what's going on each day so my feeling is that training/procedural problems are structural within the organization. I don't think it's unique to any single airport. TSA as a whole has no accountability or metric for quality and success - and that's quite unacceptable. And all they want is more money to keep growing larger.

I'll be fair and say that most inconsistencies in procedures don't seem harmful to travelers (opt-out groping aside), but they do reflect in the quality of the organization as a whole. Most of my encounters are unremarkable. However, TSA quality is one of the reasons I'm never surprised when I read of firearms disappearing from TSA secured areas.
I work at OMA and I apologise that this happened to you. Please contact out cs rep, I don't have the contact info but if you want I'll get it for you. We were not taught to do the opt out search like this and it really upsets me someone at OMA is doing this. Again sorry for your experience.
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