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Old Feb 8, 12, 7:51 pm   #2281
  
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Originally Posted by Ineverthoughtthiswouldhappen View Post
I quit flying in december after my last sexual assault at SMF. Have you ever considered I have the need to post to help cope with the severe PTSD they have caused me???
I'm sorry I was insensitive to your plight, and your phrasing made me think you'd quit flying earlier.
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Old Feb 8, 12, 8:30 pm   #2282
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Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey View Post
Just wondering. Have you ever played pa kettle and gotten into the machine and then explained that you can't assume that position? It might blow their minds.
Yes. Oddly enough, it just means I get an immediate grope instead of having to wait for the grope.
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Old Feb 8, 12, 9:08 pm   #2283
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Originally Posted by Ineverthoughtthiswouldhappen View Post
There is clearly an age and gender discrimination going on with selection for AIT.
That's not what the person to whom I responded asked. Regardless, age is not a protected class, except with respect to employment for those over 40.

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Those are protected classes.
Gender, yes. Age, no.

Quote:
In addition, they do tend to pick on shorter people whether male or female. (Easier targets perhaps?) I am short, small-framed, and clearly benign and I have been sexually assaulted by them on various occasions.
"Short-framed" is not a protected class.

Quote:
That can also be grounds for RACIAL discrimination (i.e. most Japanese are small framed and short).
No, there are no grounds for racial discrimination on this basis.

In my opinion, both the enhanced pat-down and AIT (at least with respect to the Nude-o-scopes and the X-ray) are Fourth Amendment violations and do not comply with the limitations set out by the various SC decisions with respect to a limited administrative search.

If TSOs are selecting women or people of color for pat-downs out-of-proportion to their presentation at the checkpoint, that would constitute an equal protection violation. Selecting short people or old people would not. Moreover, addressing the AIT and pat-down on equal protection basis would only mean that everyone would wind up being equally subjected to what I believe is an unconstitutional search.
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Old Feb 9, 12, 10:21 am   #2284
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Yes. Oddly enough, it just means I get an immediate grope instead of having to wait for the grope.
Yes, because you're not seen as a trouble maker that needs to be taught a lesson.
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Old Feb 9, 12, 9:58 pm   #2285
  
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I got the girl-grope twice this week after I was selected both times for AIT. In the B terminal at SMF, ALL FOUR of the people who were selected for AIT immediately before me also opted out.

Of the five of us, four were small women of varying ages and the only guy was roughly college-aged. As far as I could tell, all five were traveling alone. I was last in line, so I was farthest from the scanner and the only one able to have a prayer of seeing my belongings. As the line cleared, a screener asked everyone to move forward to wait closer to the scanner, but I stayed where I was. I don't recall anyone else moving, either.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 12:22 am   #2286
  
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Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow View Post
I got the girl-grope twice this week after I was selected both times for AIT. In the B terminal at SMF, ALL FOUR of the people who were selected for AIT immediately before me also opted out.

Of the five of us, four were small women of varying ages and the only guy was roughly college-aged. As far as I could tell, all five were traveling alone. I was last in line, so I was farthest from the scanner and the only one able to have a prayer of seeing my belongings. As the line cleared, a screener asked everyone to move forward to wait closer to the scanner, but I stayed where I was. I don't recall anyone else moving, either.
how are they at SMF? this is still fairly new, a few months out for them..
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Old Feb 10, 12, 10:00 am   #2287
  
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel View Post
how are they at SMF? this is still fairly new, a few months out for them..
One person's experience at one checkpoint with one screener....pretty tame.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 10:33 am   #2288
  
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I'm flying out of AMA for the first time this morning. The document checker was very friendly and I was the only person at security but the MMW machine was in use. As I was arranging my belongings on the x-ray belt a female TSO approached me and asked if I was familiar with the imaging machine. I said yes and opted out. What followed was a 3-5 minute argument about "why" I wanted to opt out since the machine was "perfectly safe". I was bored so I decided to play along...

First I politely asked if she had a medical degree. After that I explained my objections had nothing to do with safety and primarily with the ability to travel freely in my own country without jumping through a million hoops. She kept arguing (clearly on a power trip) so I just walked past her and through the glass gate.

The male TSO who gave me the patdown was much more professional and even commented that he doesn't understand the logic behind the current rules. I asked him for a comment card and complained about the woman and complimented his professionalism and attitude.

My entire experience in AMA has been more uptight than other west-Texas airports (LBB, MAF).

I'm sitting at the gate right now watching 2 TSOs search passengers as they board a WN flight.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 11:37 am   #2289
  
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I opted out this week at DTW (not North Terminal - the other one) and had a relatively good experience. They took me immediately, didn't try to convince me not to opt out and kept me within view of my things at all times. The TSO I dealt with was polite, professional and quickly did his job. He used new gloves and I really felt like this is how the process should happen every time (although I disagree that the process should happen at all, but if it does this is how it should go).

I took someone else's advice and filled out a POSITIVE comment card. The 3 stripper was shocked, literally, that I was willing to do this. He told me that he usually worked in a different location and had to find the cards.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 1:21 pm   #2290
  
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I did a SDOO today. I opted to fly from DCA rather than IAD. Much nicer experience as the concourse I used has no strip-search machines. No arguments, no loss of sight of one's carry-ons, and the lines move much faster.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 7:57 pm   #2291
  
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Originally Posted by PTravel View Post
That's not what the person to whom I responded asked. Regardless, age is not a protected class, except with respect to employment for those over 40.

Gender, yes. Age, no.

"Short-framed" is not a protected class.

No, there are no grounds for racial discrimination on this basis.

In my opinion, both the enhanced pat-down and AIT (at least with respect to the Nude-o-scopes and the X-ray) are Fourth Amendment violations and do not comply with the limitations set out by the various SC decisions with respect to a limited administrative search.

If TSOs are selecting women or people of color for pat-downs out-of-proportion to their presentation at the checkpoint, that would constitute an equal protection violation. Selecting short people or old people would not. Moreover, addressing the AIT and pat-down on equal protection basis would only mean that everyone would wind up being equally subjected to what I believe is an unconstitutional search.
Good points - it does seem that court rulings dictate a lot about how the constitution is interpreted. I would like to see height discrimination added to the list of protected statuses as it truly should be, but I imagine it would take a court ruling to do that.

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Originally Posted by nachtnebel View Post
how are they at SMF? this is still fairly new, a few months out for them..
I'm surprised anyone would call them "tame." Perhaps you just had a good day, but I assure you they are few and far between. The moat dragons there are "leering." The patdown agents may be aggressive, but I had a nice one. The supervisor is indifferent and other TSA staff was extremely hostile and treated me like a criminal. Disgusting violation of my constitutional rights. I told them I'm going into the military and am disgusted that this is what I'm fighting for. I told the stupid chick who was working there who had the nerve to say some terrible stuff to me that she is dumb for standing near the MMW as I got a seborrheic keratosis on my scalp I had to have removed from going through the MMW at RDU in 2010. I can't wait until they are brought to justice for what they've done to innocent people.

Last edited by essxjay; Feb 11, 12 at 2:22 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Feb 10, 12, 8:39 pm   #2292
  
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel View Post
how are they at SMF? this is still fairly new, a few months out for them..
A single data point here. I came through SMF today and they seemed particularly concerned about the MMW line backing up. For the brief time I was there, as long as there were two people waiting, everyone else got the WTMD, me included.

It seemed a reasonable and efficient way to operate. Did I just say that about the TSA? It was early. I must have been dreaming.
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Old Feb 10, 12, 10:40 pm   #2293
  
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Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
A single data point here. I came through SMF today and they seemed particularly concerned about the MMW line backing up. For the brief time I was there, as long as there were two people waiting, everyone else got the WTMD, me included.

It seemed a reasonable and efficient way to operate. Did I just say that about the TSA? It was early. I must have been dreaming.
thanks for the info. my next flight would be out of there. so far, I've resisted the urge.
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Old Feb 11, 12, 1:32 am   #2294
  
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JFK opt-out report by US journalist Danny Schechter in Al Jazeera

American journalist Danny Schechter reports his recent opt-out experience at JFK in an opinion piece at Al Jazeera news. One TSA agent he meets seems somewhat sympathetic. Another, dronelike?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...107509725.html
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Old Feb 11, 12, 11:26 am   #2295
  
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Originally Posted by volo View Post
American journalist Danny Schechter reports his recent opt-out experience at JFK in an opinion piece at Al Jazeera news. One TSA agent he meets seems somewhat sympathetic. Another, dronelike?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...107509725.html
Another good report in the media. I remember Danny Schechter, the News Dissecter, from when I was in college in Boston. Nice to know that, some forty years later, he's still on the job as an independent journalistic voice.
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