Home Land security issue
 

Infrequent lurker, my first post.
Last week coming back fro PVR to PHX I came across a gross violation regarding plane safety. It can definitely bring a plane down.
I called the FBI and said I wanted to put my complaint in writing (because I didn't want it swept under a rug) and they gave me a web site here in Phoenix that he said several agencies who were involved with homeland security issues controlled .Five days later no response of any kind.
If I do not here anything by Monday 4/15 I want to force the issue to the forefront. Where best to do it NY Times, here, CNN, everywhere I can?

Suggestions welcome.

Might help to have a little bit of insight as to what exactly it was that you came across.

Not yet, but would cause a large fire difficult to put out and depending on where it is ignited really problematic.

Welcome to FlyherTalk.

A) if it is a real "gross violation" that will continue, tell the media. It seems that the powers that be won't act unless there is some exposure.
B) "Large fire, difficult to put out" so what. If A is true, it needs to be delt with.
C) if it is stupid behavior by those charged with protecting travel safety...exposure is good for them. If embarassing, all the better, it may help them get better at what they are supposed to be doing.
or..
D) Absolutely say nothing, it may make air travel more of a pain in the A$$.

You answered it yourself, everywhere you can, and make it in writing and keep copies. To the above 2 I would add the NTSB, FAA, GAO, and maybe even a local TV station affiliate. If the latter deems it newsworthy, it might even be bumped up to the parent like NBC, CBS, or ABC. Even if you get no response, at least you can say that you tried and will have the evidence. Send each by certified mail, return receipt requested, so you have confirmation that it was rec'd at each place you sent the written warning to.

Then if your not going to say anything then whats the point of this thread

The initial note indicated it. If I get a response AND LIKE IT I'll wait to see what is enacted. If not I will get the message out everywhere I can. The remedy to the situation is easy but what now exists is very scary.

To the OP,

If you can't tell us yet what the situation was that you observed; can you answer if you are the type of person who agrees with the people on local newscasts when they say "I'll do anything if it makes me feel safer"?

Not really! Some would say that I'm very aware of potential happenstances that can happen around me. I actually check directions of fire escape exits when I check into a hotel. I've been in two hotel fires, one employee arson.

Also, in a previous life I sold wares to contain retail employee theft. You had to study and know the bad guys methods.

It's you ! Stop flying or at least let us all know when you are flying and we can avoid you like the plague ! Your real name isn't Jonah is it?

Gee is this Newbee welcome here?
I'm active on three BB's where it seems the same happens there. Two of them have many members who are very active here and recommend the information as top notch.

I didn't ask for your opinion on my worthiness nor am I interested in hearing it.

I think it was a joke.:)

FB

OP, you have got to be joking. Whatever you saw was just a standard inconsistency in security theatre multiplied by the belief that you 'must remain vigilant and report anything suspicious'. Your non-willingness to share, establishment of arbitrary deadlines, FBI notification and so on confirm that you have nothing.

Much ado about nothing.

Ronkramer88, did you do a search on this forum to see if the issue you are concerned with has been addressed previously?

Maybe this guy should join with the other one who was bent out of shape by some pax using his GPS in flight. I'm still curious why he won't tell us what happened. I thought the point here was to discuss facts.

If the issue is that serious, why hold back four weeks before deciding to publicize it? :confused:

I think you worry too much. Take a chill pill and relax. You don't need to report anything or get involved - and now you've made yourself into a person of interest to the FBI and DHS and they could begin watching you.

Next time, mind your own business - or just stop flying and find another form of transportation if it's so scary.

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/...13#post2892413


As I reported in my PV Mexico post I experienced what I thought was a gross violation of airplane safety. As I also mentioned the second hand baggage search had the monitors confiscate tubes of cosmetics and bath products sold to them at the duty free shops located after the primary screening and in the boarding lounge area regardless that they were told these products would be allowed on the plane.

I bought 1.5 (over 50 oz.) of 86 proof whiskey. I could have legally bought 3L of 151 proof rum. This was handed to me as I boarded the plane and I put it I in the bin over my seat. A few seat in front of me and on the other side that buyer put his booze under the seat in front of him.

During takeoff it came to me what a folly this procedure is. I imagined a bad guy (or guys) could empty these bottles running down the carpet, in the overhead bin and anywhere else fire could get at essential control wiring. A 151 proof makes for a hot fire difficult to put of and I'm sure a lot of smoke which could lead to other terrorist acts?
In any case I called the FBI here in AZ and they gave me an e-mail address to write that would go to a group that feeds this kind of info the agencies that needed to know.
This is the e-mail:


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 11:06:34 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Possible Homeland Security Problem

p { margin: 0; }To EVERYONE that this information may concern,

Returning from Mexico last week I realized Duty Free liquor sales are putting all Internationally traveling airplanes in jeopardy.
I bought a 1.5 liter bottle of whiskey which was delivered to me in the jetport and which I stored in the overhead bin. I thought this terribly dangerous.
A terrorist(s) (or any nutcase) could open the bottle(s) at anytime, anywhere in the plane during flight and ignite the fluid. Whether running the liquid down the carpet during takeoff, in the overhead or in the bathroom the resulting fire could be catastrophic.
I purchased a product that was 86 proof but one could also easily buy 151 proof products.
I thought that these purchases were normally kept for you in some forward locker in the plane and delivered to you upon exiting at your destination?

I would appreciate a reply as to your thoughts on this matter.


I have not, as yet, had a response.


Feel free to spread this information to any media in your locale


The cure is simple ALL duty free booze must be stored in a forward closet or bin and given to the passenger upon deplaning.

Might I suggest removing the actual emails from your post.

Other than that, I think I will grab the popcorn and watch the show.

I did not.:

I experienced what I thought was a gross violation of airplane safety. As I also mentioned the second hand baggage search had the monitors confiscate tubes of cosmetics and bath products sold to them at the duty free shops located after the primary screening and in the boarding lounge area regardless that they were told these products would be allowed on the plane.

I bought 1.5 (over 50 oz.) of 86 proof whiskey. I could have legally bought 3L of 151 proof rum. This was handed to me as I boarded the plane and I put it I in the bin over my seat. A few seat in front of me and on the other side that buyer put his booze under the seat in front of him.

During takeoff it came to me what a folly this procedure is. I imagined a bad guy (or guys) could empty these bottles running down the carpet, in the overhead bin and anywhere else fire could get at essential control wiring. A 151 proof makes for a hot fire difficult to put of and I'm sure a lot of smoke which could lead to other terrorist acts?

If you would have done a search as I previously suggested, you would have seen that this has already been discussed. This risk has already been assessed.

And as for carrying on 151 rum, that is prohibited. The assessment has been made that anything in unopened bottles over 70% alcohol is a hazardous material. The cure is to keep the rule as it currently is with respect to duty-free and to change the rule to permit liquids back on board in greater than 3.4 oz.

Delete post please.

If you would have taken the time to do so, then you would have saved yourself the time you spent going down this rabbit trail and the time the rest of us spent on replying to your previously undefined threat. And on top of that, you are causing government agencies to spend their time on this when they have better things to do. So now our tax dollars are being wasted because you did not research the issue. :rolleyes:

hahaha what a nutcase!

conspiracies, secret squirrel behaviour, the x files, paranoia and duty free molotov cocktails...

Please do everyone a huge favor and avoid future travel at all costs.

sorry 151 is not allowed by the airlines. most duty free shops if they have high proof the shelves are marked as such. normal liquors wont light off with out being mixed with other items, so no normal whiskey wont light.

Welcome to flyertalk. ^

Did you actually see them selling 151, or is this just speculation that it could happen if a store sold it?

Speculation. Thank you for the welcome in any case.

I had some friends in college who worked on the college ambulance crew. They actually had a pool of what they called 'frequent floppers' who they would transport on a monthly or better basis. I am pretty sure the FBI has a similar list. For you, and people like my old senile neighbor who called the FBI to tell them I was a terrorist because I flew to much.

Complaints like this that are trivial (but the complainer takes VERY seriously) waste real law enforcement time that could be spent actually keeping us safe. Such asinine attempts to keep us safe from an invisible enemies actually very actively make us less safe. :rolleyes:

If I am delayed deplaning so FA's can hand out duty free liquor, your going to have bigger problems than somebody trying to light your rug on fire...

Or at least warn us in advance so we can avoid the forthcoming chaos.

I have read OP's complaint and have ascertained that the only danger to international flights comes from the occasional crazed individual who might want to make himself some Bananas Foster en-route to his destination.

I am much more concerned about nervous or racist passengers spying on, and pointing out the behaviour of their fellow passengers on flights - those are the real nut cases that need to be held accountable by whatever means necessary, whether on the flight itself or at a time they least expect it later on.

Then I don't see a problem. Unless you can verify they sell it (and I seriously doubt that they do; you are not the first person to tink of this), then you are making much ado about nothing-- if they don't sell it, how is it a threat? It is no wonder no one at DHS cares . . .

Yes, all combustible materials must be verboten on planes. The guy in the other thread that can hold off taking a dump for TATL flights might have something he can patent - if they get rid of loo roll ! I might start taking that thread seriously now !

I'll get me popcorn.

@romkramer88:

The best thing you can do is to stop thinking about security on board aircraft. If you keep this up, you'll drive yourself nuts.

Here are the simple facts:
- TSA only provides security theater. No real guarantee of protection is provided by them. Heck, some of them are even criminals themselves as evidenced by news stories that many of the posts in this forum link to.

- Governments and their organizations (TSA, FBI, etc., etc.) only operate in reactive mode. Even if you had noticed a real threat, no matter how simple the solution it would not have been implemented until at least one airliner was destroyed by it. Agencies seem to only consider threats to be credible after someone acts upon them.

- While it is very nobile of you to be concerned about things, making suggestions like this to the government will result in no good. You may draw extra attention to yourself that you probably wouldn't want. Even worse, suggestions of the nature that you made might serve to make flying less convenient for thousands by providing yet another "reason" for gate harassment and searches for anyone and everyone flying to the US. This won't result in stopping terrorists; it will just cause them to slightly alter their MO.

Life is much better when you stop worrying about every little detail and just sit back, relax, and enjoy yourself. This doesn't mean that you don't go in to things prepared and remain vigilant-- there's a big difference between looking out for yourself and providing governments with yet another reason to grope us and paw through our belongings "for our own security"...

Got it.