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Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID

Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID

Old Dec 17, 10, 2:43 pm
  #1096  
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Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
You mean, you "have to" in order to get the HMO to cover the bill, right?
Honestly, I don't know. It could be to prevent someone that finds my medical ID card from going in and making an appointment under my name just because they have the card to try and get a prescription for a controlled substance. Presenting ID to match up against my HMO ID card would stop that.

Do you know your pharmacist? Last time I had a prescription filled, it was by a pharmacist who'd known me since I was a child.
No. My facility is huge and has at least three pharmacies that I know of (maybe more). Must have at least 50-60 pharmacists, if not more. I don't know a single one of them.

Required by law, or required in order to convince that particular private entity to do business with you?
Required if I want to see my doctor or pick up a prescription. Have no idea if there's a California law in play here.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 2:49 pm
  #1097  
 
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You don't have to show ID to get a medical exam in Washington State

I just checked with a friend of mine who works for a local medical clinic. She reports that at her clinic, patients are required to give their names, but not show any documentation of such.

So in Washington State, at least, people don't have to show ID in order to get a medical exam.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:01 pm
  #1098  
Ari
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
I have to present ID for both with my HMO, and have had doctors appointments and prescriptions filled in the last two weeks. Pretty typical experience for me. They even have signs out that ID is required.
Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
I've had to do the same.
I've never had to present an ID to see a doctor-- ever. I have used an HMO and a PPO as well as in and out of network providers.

I have been asked for ID by Walgreens and CVS only when filling prescriptions for CII drugs. I declined and found a new pharmacy and couldn't be happier.

Originally Posted by JennyElf View Post
Except the ID is not for the purpose of getting the exam in this case, it is so that one doesn't commit insurance fraud. If you were to pay up front in cash, an ID probably wouldn't be required. Same with scripts as long as they aren't for controlled substances.
Agree on the first count; on the Rx count, see above. State laws vary, but I don't accept the notion of presenting an ID to recieve medical care. If my insurance carrier had such a requirement, I might decide to do it or choose a different carrier or plan. If I lived in NY, I might not have a choice.

Originally Posted by JennyElf View Post
ETA: I could see another reason for ID, to make sure that you are the same person as the medical records think you are, ie: to avoid giving you a medication you're allergic to or in order to make sure they don't put you in an MRI if you have a metal plate in your head. But often, just knowing your date of birth or having a hospital ID card will suffice for that.
As an outpatient, I am asked for my name and DOB before any care is performed, test is done, blood is drawn, IV is started or drug is given each and every time; a wristband is sufficient for an inpatient or day urgery and name and DOB is verified before it is affixed.

Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
You mean, you "have to" in order to get the HMO to cover the bill, right?
Or as hospital policy for non-emergency services and as pharmacy policy; private businesses are just that.

Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
Do you know your pharmacist?
Yes. He knows my face. He knows my voice on the phone. He knows my doctors. He knows the brands of generic drugs that I prefer for each medication. He knows my dog and the meds that he takes and he knows the brands of generic drugs that my dog dislakes the least as far as taste. He also knows my family. He is willing to order anything and also to compound; cough syrup with hydrocodone was pretty much taken off the market, but he made it for a dear friend who had a very bad cough.

Sure he is only there M-F 8-5, but Walgreens and CVS are always there for an after-hours emergency.

Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Honestly, I don't know. It could be to prevent someone that finds my medical ID card from going in and making an appointment under my name just because they have the card to try and get a prescription for a controlled substance. Presenting ID to match up against my HMO ID card would stop that.
That it would.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:01 pm
  #1099  
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Does that clinic issue medical ID cards that are required to be presented for an appointment, or to pick up a prescription? Mine, for instance, contains my file number, name and birth year.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:04 pm
  #1100  
 
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Originally Posted by pmocek View Post
Do you know your pharmacist? Last time I had a prescription filled, it was by a pharmacist who'd known me since I was a child.

...

When people speak of "requirements" that we present documentation of our identity, I usually remind them that we are not required to have such documentation in the United States and ask them to consider what happens to people who do not have it.
I never recall showing photo ID to obtain healthcare services or pick up a (non controlled substances) script. But much to my ongoing outrage we are *required* to show photo ID to get sudafed, the safest and most effective decongestant, due to federal law (and formerly some state laws). Even pharmacists who know me from previous/repeated visits insist on seeing the ID, presumably because their jobs are threatened if they don't check it.

I have no idea what happens to someone who truly does not have ID. I would love to see it litigated, as I believe that pharmacists logging our medications, and automatically and without individualized suspicion turning those logs over to police for aggregation into their database in some states, is as serious a threat to freedom as TSA's ID checks.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:05 pm
  #1101  
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
If my insurance carrier had such a requirement, I might decide to do it or choose a different carrier or plan. If I lived in NY, I might not have a choice.
What makes New York different?
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:06 pm
  #1102  
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Originally Posted by studentff View Post
I have no idea what happens to someone who truly does not have ID. I would love to see it litigated, as I believe that pharmacists logging our medications, and automatically turning those logs over to police for aggregation into their database in some states, is as serious a threat to freedom as TSA's ID checks.
It was ruled constitutional in New York when they started it for CII drugs, I believe. I assume it was the CA2, but it might have just been the NY state highest court-- don't remember.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:11 pm
  #1103  
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
What makes New York different?
Poorly structured sentence-- I thought NY law requires ID for all controlled substance transactions, but I just looked it up and I am wrong. It is only required if the pharmacist is not familiar with the patient which (would be almost always at any large chain pharmacy).
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:11 pm
  #1104  
 
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
This should be a very interesting trial.

It seems that the DA is only taking the lead from The Identyt Project and Phil on the ID thing.
I don't think I'm leading her. I've never met her. It would, indeed, be interesting for the prosecutor's boss to be led by the defendant.


Originally Posted by Ari View Post
it seems to me that the only undisputed fact (even here in this thread-- someone speak up if not) is that Phil didn't violate any TSA policies or regulations.
Everyone who doesn't work for TSA can only guess about their secret regulations, though their policies are largely observable by airline passengers.

Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Phil, are you aware of how this came to the attention of the local news?
Not for sure, but if you look at page 41 of the packet of documents I received from the City of Albuquerque via public records request, you'll see that on the morning of November 17, 2009, Mike Anderson at the KOB-TV news desk contacted Marshall Katz at the City of Albuquerque, referencing Sherri Davidoff's November 16, 2009, Philosecurity post about my arrest. Also, Olivier Uyttebrouck Olivier Uyttebrouck the Albuquerque Journal attempted to contact me via Twitter on November 17, 2009.

Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Also, it appears that there will be a video introduced into evidence; can we rely on you to post this video once it has been shown in open court?
I really can't comment on any specifics.

I'd broadcast the entire trial live if it was feasible and unlikely to cause problems. It's open court, and it seems to me that if the public are allowed to attend in person, the public should be allowed to view remotely. I don't know anything about the history of live reports from court, though. Maybe someone here can fill us in.

The judge in Julian Assange's recent bail hearing disallowed Twitter updates from the courtroom. The Bernalillo County Metropolitan Court doesn't, as a general rule, allow electronic devices past the front door.

Last edited by pmocek; Dec 17, 10 at 3:18 pm Reason: note tweet from AJ reporter
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:12 pm
  #1105  
 
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Originally Posted by studentff View Post
I never recall showing photo ID to obtain healthcare services or pick up a (non controlled substances) script. But much to my ongoing outrage we are *required* to show photo ID to get sudafed, the safest and most effective decongestant, due to federal law (and formerly some state laws). Even pharmacists who know me from previous/repeated visits insist on seeing the ID, presumably because their jobs are threatened if they don't check it.

I have no idea what happens to someone who truly does not have ID. I would love to see it litigated, as I believe that pharmacists logging our medications, and automatically and without individualized suspicion turning those logs over to police for aggregation into their database in some states, is as serious a threat to freedom as TSA's ID checks.
Pseudoephedrine-based medications are the most effective OTC product for managing my allergy symptoms. However, due to this craptastic invasion into my lifestyle by the nanny-state governments (both federal and Maryland), I no longer purchase them.

In keeping with the remainder of the thread, some doctors/hospitals here in MD love to push the "show ID" mentality, with most of them demanding a photocopy every time you, or a family member you are fiduciarily responsible for, are treated (Adventist Healthcare, I am looking at you). If the services are for me, I will walk away from that appointment/emergency room. If the services are for a family member, I use my CAC, along with advising them that it is a violation of federal law (18 USC 701) for a non-government employee to photocopy/scan a CAC.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:28 pm
  #1106  
 
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State boards of pharmacy, TSA, pseudoephedrine, and SSI

Originally Posted by studentff View Post
much to my ongoing outrage we are *required* to show photo ID to get sudafed, the safest and most effective decongestant, due to federal law (and formerly some state laws). Even pharmacists who know me from previous/repeated visits insist on seeing the ID, presumably because their jobs are threatened if they don't check it.
I had a conversation about that with my mother, who lives in Missouri, about similar restrictions on the sale of over-the-counter drugs containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (e.g., Sudafed), in Missouri, after we watched the KOB story last week. If these drugs warrant strict control, I think they should be listed as controlled substances and regulated under the existing system. If they don't meet those qualifications, then we should be left alone to purchase them without identifying ourselves and being tracked. I understand the motivations; I dislike the chosen solution.

I suspect that the reasoning is similar to TSA's use of their "SSI" designation: a sort of back-door document-classification/drug-scheduling that avoids accountability and oversight.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:30 pm
  #1107  
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I've never had my ID checked at a pharmacy for any prescription, controlled or not. They ask me to verbally confirm my address - that's the extent of any 'check' I've ever been subjected to. I know about the drivers license registry for certain OTC items, i.e. Sudafed, but I just bring those back from Canada so I don't need to give my personal info.

New doctors and hospitals have asked me for photo ID - and it's just to make sure the insurance ID card is mine and not one that I borrowed. I can refuse and take my business elsewhere, though. I know Government Health Insurance cards in Canada now have a photo right on them, specifically because of a ton of money lost to fraud and treatments for ineligible patients.

If someone had no insurance, it would be *very* tempting (and very easy) to borrow a friend's card and receive treatment if identity was not confirmed, especially if the situation was urgent or dire.
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen View Post
I know Government Health Insurance cards in Canada now have a photo right on them, specifically because of a ton of money lost to fraud and treatments for ineligible patients.
.
Hmm...that's interesting. My Alberta card does not have a photo, or even my address. Just full name, DOB and insurance #.
I wonder if it's different in other provinces?
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:46 pm
  #1109  
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Originally Posted by J. Leslie View Post
Hmm...that's interesting. My Alberta card does not have a photo, or even my address. Just full name, DOB and insurance #.
Are you asked to present ID when you use that card?
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Old Dec 17, 10, 3:54 pm
  #1110  
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Originally Posted by J. Leslie View Post
Hmm...that's interesting. My Alberta card does not have a photo, or even my address. Just full name, DOB and insurance #.
I wonder if it's different in other provinces?
That is interesting...I know Ontario cards have a photo. Maybe it's just certain provinces.

I can understand asking for Photo ID for LEGITIMATE reasons and situations, specifically when the identity of the person can be verified on the spot, and needs to be for a specific reason (i.e. insurance fraud).

The problem is, our society has fallen in love with Photo ID - demanding it for nonsensical purposes and asinine situations. Many condos here in Florida want to see a photo ID to enter as a guest. For what reason? Are they checking a list? (no, they don't).

If there is a real need to check a Photo ID, fine - but we need to pull back on this 'check Photo ID all the time' crap.
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