Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID

Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID

Old Dec 7, 10, 8:48 pm
  #991  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
So basically they're at the mercy or management to compensate them for going in on their days off, or they can ask for a witness fee from the court (think my court paid $15)? I recall one FTer posted a few weeks ago that they are allowed to join a union, so guess I'm a little confused about what the purpose of joining one would be if they can't bargain for you but are allowed to represent you in workplace issues. Wouldn't being paid to go to court be a workplace issue? This was the post in regards to a labor board ruling allowing them to vote on union representation:



Any of our TSA posters know what compensation you get if you go to court on your days off? Does it vary per airport?
Right now the government doesn't recognized any organization to represent or bargain for them. NTEU and AFGE are currently both trying to win the TSA employees so to speak. So you have some airports that have started NTEU locals and others that have started AFGE locals. Both unions have petitioned the FLRA to support and allowed union representation. The FLRA supported the petition but TSA has yet to act on it. If it does act on it, it is likely that a vote would be held to decide which organization would represent them. At that point the winning union would absorb the losing unions locals.

FB
Firebug4 is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 9:03 pm
  #992  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 13,394
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I wonder if the TSOs are getting paid for this . . . and if so, by who? They aren't cops, going to court isn't part of their job.

Glad they wore their uniforms, though.
It's basically up to their supervisors to determine if the court apperance is in the line of duty. If that's the case, they are paid just as if they were at the checkpoint groping us.

Given what happened in a couple of cases where the government lost because of screener testimony, I would be shocked if "Red Beard" even comes close to the witness stand.
FliesWay2Much is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 9:16 pm
  #993  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington DC USA
Posts: 2,570
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Given what happened in a couple of cases where the government lost because of screener testimony, I would be shocked if "Red Beard" even comes close to the witness stand.
C'mon, that photo was worth 10,000 words. That guy practically exemplifies the "professionalism" Tom Daschle was predicting we'd get when we made the TSA a federal agency.
crhptic is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 9:21 pm
  #994  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,037
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Given what happened in a couple of cases where the government lost because of screener testimony, I would be shocked if "Red Beard" even comes close to the witness stand.
Oh, I'm sure he'll go up there. If the prosecution does not have him among their eight witnesses, the defense should.

The difference being the TSA attorneys will have learned from Fofana and "help" them.
LessO2 is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 9:43 pm
  #995  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ Super Plats
Posts: 25,247
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
It's basically up to their supervisors to determine if the court apperance is in the line of duty. If that's the case, they are paid just as if they were at the checkpoint groping us.

Given what happened in a couple of cases where the government lost because of screener testimony, I would be shocked if "Red Beard" even comes close to the witness stand.
If the defense wants his testimony, they will have no choice.
MikeMpls is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:13 pm
  #996  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,011
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Given what happened in a couple of cases where the government lost because of screener testimony, I would be shocked if "Red Beard" even comes close to the witness stand.
Who is "Red Beard"?
Ari is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:19 pm
  #997  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
2020 FlyerTalk Awards
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 30,934
Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Who is "Red Beard"?
Pictured in the linked website on the previous page (make that two pages back).

Last edited by moondog; Dec 7, 10 at 10:26 pm
moondog is online now  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:28 pm
  #998  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,277
Originally Posted by VH-RMD View Post
I hope the employer does NOT pay them and they must attend in their own time, may make some of them reflect on how they behave towards passengers (I know this has nothing to do with the present case).
That works two ways, though. Suppose you have a dispute with another passenger while waiting in line and that passenger assaults you in front of a screener. Or suppose your laptop is stolen and the TSA employee observes who is carrying it off and a police officer makes an arrest. Wouldn't you want those TSA employees appearing in court if they can help your case? Would you also want them to appear without any compensation for something they observed while on the job if you're the victim?
tom911 is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:31 pm
  #999  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,011
Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Wouldn't you want those TSA employees appearing in court if they can help your case?
What does compensation have to do with that?
Ari is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:43 pm
  #1000  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,277
A matter of fairness. If they observed you were the victim of a crime, they should not have to appear in court for "free". No government employee should be required to appear without compensation if the case involves the day to day performance of their duties and they need to come in on their days off to testify. I never went to court for "free" and I was there pretty regularly. Why should a TSA employee be any different?

Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
It's basically up to their supervisors to determine if the court apperance is in the line of duty. If that's the case, they are paid just as if they were at the checkpoint groping us.
So if they've already worked 40 hours that week on a night shift, that would be paid overtime, correct? If they're only at the courthouse for 15 mins before a plea bargain is struck, or continuation agreed on, they'll just get paid 15 minutes overtime and nothing else? If that is the case, I can see why they would be reluctant to appear in court. I thought the 4 hour minimum I received was fair because it factored in travel time and some minimum amount of time at the court house, let alone having to give up one of your days off if you had weekdays off. No minimums?
tom911 is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:47 pm
  #1001  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Greater DC
Programs: UA plus
Posts: 12,940
You were a cop where the court time was a PART of a your job. TSA is no different than a grocery store clerk. Sure if there was a robbery of the store, the store may cover their time, but if there was an altercation between two customers and the employee was a witness, I'd think the employee would be on their own when called to testify.

If TSA is directly in involved - maybe. Otherwise, they should not be paid, it'd be yet another facet that would get abused
GoingAway is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 10:52 pm
  #1002  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,277
Originally Posted by GoingAway View Post
You were a cop where the court time was a PART of a your job.
Actually, I was in a supervisor in a Communications Center. Big difference, though, yes, appearing in court was part of my job.

If TSA is directly in involved - maybe. Otherwise, they should not be paid, it'd be yet another facet that would get abused
So in the two instances I gave, where one witnesses an assault in the checkpoint line, and another witnesses a theft from the checkpoint, would you consider that directly involved? I would. They're witnesses to a crime at their workplace, and they made the observations during the course of their employment. I just can't see sending them off to court for "free" for something that happens in the work place.

Now, would I pay them for going to court on a theft they witnessed at a 7-11 store? No.
tom911 is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 11:20 pm
  #1003  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: American Airlines AAdvantage, Rapids Reward
Posts: 34,158
Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Actually, I was in a supervisor in a Communications Center. Big difference, though, yes, appearing in court was part of my job.
Excuse me, Are you working for the communications center? Are you taking own responsibilites for defendant behaviors at the court? So who is charges? If you see someone who have a problems at the court and some of few people will removable off the court. Do they have installed the security surveillance camera at the courtroom?
N830MH is offline  
Old Dec 7, 10, 11:36 pm
  #1004  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,277
I'm retired. That should appear in my profile below my name. I don't know anything about courthouse security as that was handled by the county sheriff, which is the norm in counties around me. I worked for a city PD.
tom911 is offline  
Old Dec 8, 10, 1:08 am
  #1005  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 629
A TSO is not an LEO. If they witnessed a crime they can be compelled to appear in court as a witness. Unlike a cop, the TSO's job description does not include appearing as a witness in a court case. So, no. I wouldn't expect or want a TSO to get paid to appear in court if my laptop gets stolen. Of course that is particularly true if they are the ones who stole it, which is the most likely scenario. If we were to follow your logic, every witness in court should be paid for their time, and at the same rate they are normally paid. That could get awfully expensive for the state. Would you be willing to pay higher taxes to pay for it?
gojirasan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: