PTravel

Everything I've read said that the hijackers flew under their real names and presented valid ID.

i7654

This is a bit off topic, but it relates to the authority of TSO's.
i was coming though IAD last week from FRA, and was a little drunk, i was waiting to collect my bags (wrong place) TSO approaches me, as i'm the only one still waiting for my baggage, and speaks to me very rudely demanding to know what i'm still doing here. i reply im waiting for my bags or something and he freaks out at me, and demands i address him as sir.


being intoxicated makes me a little braver, so i insist i don't have to call him sir, and we had this little tit for tat, and then he started to make threats about arresting me if i don't call him sir, i start getting ruder, and demanded he calls his supervisor.

My bag finally arrives, as do 3 more TSO's, i thought i was in for it with the extra officers, but surprisingly the situation gets defused when one of the older ones agrees they have no right to insist i call them sir, and i am under no obligation to call any TSO sir.

they all apologize to me for their colleagues behavior, the original TSO aplogizes, i accept his apology, thank him, call him sir and leave for the check-in counter with a big smile on my face

Boggie Dog

TSA is not a law enforcement agency.

11 states will issue a drivers license to undocumented individuals, the TSA's ID of choice. So no matter what security the boarding pass has it is already defeated.
Showing ID to a low level employee of the government does nothing to enhance security.

Enforcing traffic laws is another matter. If you or someone else is speeding by any margin above the limits then my safety is being jeopardized. Thousands of people are killed or injured from speeding on the roadways yearly. Taking steps to mitigate speeding benefits all who use the roads.

If the TSA screening process divest travelers of dangerous items then what else needs to be done? What threat do these people present?

Your argument on ID checking seems more a rationalization rather than stating a clear idea of how TSA ID checking adds to security.

bwhite

The average terrorist is not flying across the country to visit other terrorists or go to the terrorist convention in Vegas. The idea that they are going to "catch" people this way is absurd. Why they are allowed to use this logic for air travel but not for bus, train or ferry travel is unexplainable. Unfortunately the current administration is either too busy or too cowardly to take on the abomination and waste of tax dollars called TSA.

I am glad someone has the courage to stand up for their rights to privacy from the government.

RadioGirl

Oh, no fear, they're working on buses, trains, ferries, bridges, harbors, and mule-drivers at historical parks. By 2015, you'll have to show ID to push the button to use the pedestrian crosswalk.
Yep.

bdschobel

How does showing IDs make anyone safer? I don't care who is on the plane with me; I care only that they aren't carrying weapons, bombs, etc. IDs do not equal security. Only people who never thought about it believe that.Yeah, I guess so. Remind me.

Bruce

nrgiii

Well Teddy did cause terror to many Fox News viewers over the years, but I digress.

As one who's name was on the selectee list, you're preaching to the choir on that one. As I said before, ID checking today is meaningless. But it could be meaningful if the boarding pass and ID were secure and the list checked against contained real bad guys. I fully appreciate that none of those conditions are true today.

It doesn't but those are apples and oranges. There are certain people I don't want on my flight and there are certain objects I don't want on my flight. The prevention methods are different for each.

Apples and oranges again. Your argument assumes that checking ID is only to prevent terrorists from boarding. It isn't. Consider the nut jobs who try to open the emergency exit during the flight or who get drunk and assault FAs or other passengers. There are more of those out there than real terrorists and the only dangerous thing they bring through the metal detector is themselves.

bocastephen

I think it's already been mentioned, but it bears repeating - the TSA has NO authority to issue a "lawful government order". They can require people to follow certain procedures in order to get somewhere or do something (i.e. comply with screening procedures before accessing the sterile area), but they have no authority to issue any 'order' or enforce any law whatsoever.

If any screener or TSA employee thinks they have that power, they are sadly mistaken.

i7654 showed remarkably restraint in his interaction with that screener - mine would have been somewhat along the lines of 'go f*** yourself' since we are outside the sterile area and the TSA has no authority to do anything there at all.

Spiff

The checkpoint should never be used as a excuse for law enforcement to go on fishing expeditions.

TSA is not law enforcement. And no one should ever have to identify themselves to a government actor as a condition of flying on a commercial aircraft.

It's time to take a 2x4 to the heads of the TSA and the government over this ID requirement.

IslandBased

They are testing it...
""This test represents one in a series of pilot programs TSA has designed to evaluate the effectiveness of emerging explosive detection technologies in the maritime environment," said John Sammon, TSA Assistant Administrator, Transportation Sector Network Management. "This is yet another tool the agency can use to respond to specific threats that arise from new intelligence or major events."

Through Nov. 6, TSA will use CarSCAN™, a novel dual-energy transmission X-ray technology, to screen all passenger vehicles before they are driven onboard the ferry to Martha's Vineyard. For convenience, drivers will be permitted to remain in their vehicles during screening, which lasts approximately 10 seconds. Because the technology does not use whole body imaging, privacy issues will not be a concern. Testing will occur Monday through Friday between 9 a.m. and 3 p.m.

Prior to boarding the ferry, drivers of passenger vehicles will be asked to proceed through the CarSCAN™ portal at approximately 5 mph. Images of the scanned vehicles will be monitored by TSA's Transportation Security Officers from a station adjacent to the portal. If an anomaly is detected, the vehicle will be directed to a secondary screening area for inspection by TSA-certified explosives detection K9 teams."

I wonder how this will hold up to salt air and gale force winds...

nickvora

Hahaha - that's funny. Oh wait you weren't kidding. Really you're equating determined terrorists with sophisticated billion dollar money laundering networks, recruits that are brainwashed into believing that suicide bombing is virtuous, operations in dozens of countries and sophisticated media and public relations arms to "speeders" ???

By defintion, and DHS's own admissions, the multiple layer approach to security between the intelligence agencies, the law enforcement (real LE's not TSO's) agencies and others means that the majority of potential "terrorists" have been deterred or stopped way before they ever present ID (or not) to the TSO at the airport. That means the analogy that TSA needs to do all this to deter the "common criminal" is ludicrous. They are part of a multi-layered strategy - their job is to keep harmful stuff off the planes. END OF MISSION.

By definition, if the TSA is trying to deter the "common criminal" what they are doing is hurting aviation business by making it harder to fly.

And c'mon let's wake up huh - before 9/11 Al Qaeda and others still hated the US. They hated and still hate the way of life we have. They hate the fact that we don't all listen to one voice (chosen by the one "true" god) - and do everything they say. Sadly, the problem, as has been stated by so many other posters - is that by allowing things like the TSA ID Checks and arrests if you don't follow orders - the random stops within the USA while driving near a border etc. - we are doing what the terrorists failed to do - change our way of life.

How many more "restrictions" in the name of safety and security should we continue to accept? Patriot Act, TSA, DHS, warrantless wire taps (FISA) etc. Sad day when we actually end up in a country where we all have to carry ID to walk around, all ID's are secure using a single federal standard (national ID anyone), and at any time any person with a tin foil badge can walk up and say "Papers Please!" - and if we don't we go to jail. Oh the irony!!!

ND Sol

Shouldn't the people that you don't want on your flight be arrested if they are such a concern? And how many actually have been identified by the TSA and then arrested by LEO's? I am not aware of any.

And how would ID'ing a person ensure that they are not a nut job? You can predict their behavior on a plane through their ID? What am I missing in your statement?

MatthewLAX

There are certain people I don't want on my flights either. Namely: POS, those who bring McDonalds onboard, drunks, and those who don't believe in showering, yet to allow the TSA (as others have said, they have no law enforcement authority) to monitor who goes through security is too great a restriction on my right to travel. Their job is to monitor the metal detectors and x-ray machines ONLY.

How does checking IDs prevent these types from boarding airplanes?

Do you really want to vest the TSA with a list of "bad guys"; people who may be too mentally incompetent to fly? I shudder to think about that day.

nrgiii

Just harmful stuff but not harmful people? Do you really want it that way? My point was that if the holes in the ID checking process were closed (secure BP, secure ID, and accurate selectee/no fly lists), then there is security value with checking IDs to match BPs. And not to keep out well organized terrorists who would still manage to get by a more secure ID check as many have pointed out. What about someone who has been banned from flying because he got drunk and assaulted another PAX? Or someone who is mentally unstable and has been known to attempt opening emergency exits mid-flight? I don't want to those kinds on my flight either. How would they be prevented from boarding if we had no ID checking?

Any security makes things harder. If it doesn't make things harder then it isn't security.

I'm wide awake but I'm not sure you are. Are you seriously suggesting that the proper response to 911 is to NOT change our lives in any way whatsoever? This attitude of "if I have to show my ID to fly, then the terrorists win" is complete nonsense. The terrorists win if I'm forced to speak Arabic and memorize the Q'ran. Otherwise, not so much. And like I've already said, there are other people besides terrorists whom I don't want on my flight.

Interesting, but not related to the point I was making, which is that checking IDs against BP's at airports could have security value if done right. I totally agree that the way it's done today is a joke.

bocastephen

I'm equally fascinated by the thesis presented here and looking forward to the explanation.