Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID
Jan 25, 2011, 12:03 pm
#1532
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Anyone can listen to Wiggins' belt tape, though part of it went missing
I listened closely to both witnesses to see if there was anything that could produce a perjury charge and found only sufficiently-objective item and that was whether or not Phil yelled "don't let them search you!" after his arrest. There was no evidence presented in the trial that would refute that allegation, but Officer Wiggin's belt tape (which wasn't presented as evidence) either does or does not contain that statement. If it does not (something which the DA knows), then I think perjury charges could be brought and Phil would have ground for a civil action. But, in my opinion, everything else was too subjective (e.g., what, precisely constitutes "yelling") and subject to misremembering to bring a perjury charge.
Notes I took on those recordings:
Code:
police_audio/DW_A0008.wav
begin: 2009-11-15 14:35:41
end: 2009-11-15 14:36:23
length: 00:00:42
"done. causing a commotion" - "well, you can be arr--"
police_audio/DW_A0008_1.wav
begin: 2009-11-15 14:38:36
end: 2009-11-15 15:05:25
length: 00:26:49
wiggins recorder
police_audio/DW_A0008_2.wav
same as prev
police_audio/DW_A0009.wav
begin: 2009-11-15 16:35:33
end: 2009-11-15 17:20:30
length: 00:27:25
"stand up. hands on your head" - custody transfer at downtown police dept
Jan 25, 2011, 12:04 pm
#1533
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,581
In my opinion, the legislature (Congress) is the proper place to seek change in the law. Legislators are best equipped to weigh all the interests against each other. Judges tend to have a more one-dimensional view. Judicial decisions make bad law, and their law is undemocratic and harder to correct. For this reason, I cannot be a fan of people who attempt to use the courts to effect change undemocratically when they have not exhausted the democratic legislative possibilities. Of course it's easier to persuade one judge to agree with you than to persuade a majority of Congress, especially if you have some control over which judge hears your case, but democracy requires the latter approach.
I'm happy for Phil, but I hope that protesters apply pressure to Congress in the future rather than playing rulebook games with the TSA. I think Congress is ready to consider some changes now, especially given the public's distaste for the new scanning machines.
I'm happy for Phil, but I hope that protesters apply pressure to Congress in the future rather than playing rulebook games with the TSA. I think Congress is ready to consider some changes now, especially given the public's distaste for the new scanning machines.
Jan 25, 2011, 12:16 pm
#1534
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Thanks! I'll check it out tomorrow. What time the show is starts?
Jan 25, 2011, 12:35 pm
#1535
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Wiggins' belt tape is public record. It was provided to me as a result of my public records request to the City of Albuquerque. Part of it is missing, and I was not given any explanation for that.
Bruce
Jan 25, 2011, 12:59 pm
#1536
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
You are free to reassert this claim as often as you like though it won't negate the fact that other avenues of change exist.
I'm not looking for a fight here, FH, just expressing skepticism of the One True Way. Something about your insistence struck me as odd and I didn't quite know why until now.
Thanks, I'll pass. But I do appreciate your disclosing what it is you do.
A much belated welcome to FT, ehasbrouck. ^
Not sure what you mean by effective, but if credible representation is what we're looking for I'm not sure Kate Hanni is it. See here, here and here.
And Of course it is realistic (I don't see your points disputing that???),
I and many other lobbyists have done it to nearly EVERY single bill that ever passed congress. Walk down K street and see for yourself then get back to us.
And the Identity Project is a nonprofit educational and legal organization, *not* a PAC or a lobbying organization.
All that said, we are pretty much the only group that has consistently tried to do many of the things being talked about here -- including doing what little we could (without being able to afford to represent him) to help Phil, limited by our own ability and by our resources.
All that said, we are pretty much the only group that has consistently tried to do many of the things being talked about here -- including doing what little we could (without being able to afford to represent him) to help Phil, limited by our own ability and by our resources.
My thoughts exactly, and they've already proven to be effective with regard to tarmac delays.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jan 26, 2011 at 12:08 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jan 25, 2011, 1:39 pm
#1537
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Jan 25, 2011, 7:02 pm
#1538
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
Wiggins' belt tape is public record. It was provided to me as a result of my public records request to the City of Albuquerque. Part of it is missing, and I was not given any explanation for that.
Richard, did you look at the criminal complaint? It was signed under penalty of perjury.
Of course, from a legal point of view, it doesn't matter whether you said it or not because:
(1) It would have been the most protected form of speech, being a protest against the government.
(2) A single yell can't rise to the level of "disorderly conduct".
(3) It was alleged you said it after the arrest and the judge was clear that anything said then isn't "disorderly" as a matter of law.
Jan 25, 2011, 9:01 pm
#1540
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If an existing PAC is not suitable then I would think that only leaves a couple of choices, one, do nothing as a group or, two, take action to form a new group that addresses the issues of choice.
Jan 25, 2011, 9:50 pm
#1541
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
You are free to reassert this claim as often as you like though it won't negate the fact that other avenues of change exist.
I'm not looking for a fight here, FH, just expressing skepticism of the One True Way. Something about your insistence struck me as odd and I didn't quite know why until now.
Thanks, I'll pass. But I do appreciate your disclosing what it is you do.
A much belated welcome to FT, ehasbrouck. ^
I'm not looking for a fight here, FH, just expressing skepticism of the One True Way. Something about your insistence struck me as odd and I didn't quite know why until now.
Thanks, I'll pass. But I do appreciate your disclosing what it is you do.
A much belated welcome to FT, ehasbrouck. ^
the more the merrier. Let these b*st*rds feel the heat.
If our country was not so sick, anyone who tried to pull what TSA is pulling here, with the genital, breast, and butt grabbing, would be forcibly dragged out to a vat of tar and feathers, at a minimum.
Jan 25, 2011, 10:16 pm
#1542
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A PAC wouldn't hurt. But I agree, not the only way. Why not pressure on a number of points: federal lawsuits, municipal and state actions against the scanners, congressional pressure.
the more the merrier. Let these b*st*rds feel the heat.
If our country was not so sick, anyone who tried to pull what TSA is pulling here, with the genital, breast, and butt grabbing, would be forcibly dragged out to a vat of tar and feathers, at a minimum.
the more the merrier. Let these b*st*rds feel the heat.
If our country was not so sick, anyone who tried to pull what TSA is pulling here, with the genital, breast, and butt grabbing, would be forcibly dragged out to a vat of tar and feathers, at a minimum.
Kate Hanni's hardly a saint (initially I was very unimpressed by her) but she got the job done.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Jan 26, 2011 at 12:09 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Jan 25, 2011, 10:23 pm
#1543
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posts: 79
Photos of trial
For those who want to put faces to the voices, we've added photos of the principals to our audio archive of the trial:
http://papersplease.org/wp/2011/01/2...phillip-mocek/
http://papersplease.org/wp/2011/01/2...phillip-mocek/