Aug 12, 2020, 3:23 pm
Last edit by: blueman2
Chase Pay Yourself Back Feature
Pay Yourself Back Rotating Category "Extra bonus boost when using UR points for payment" option
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Currently, the categories for pay yourself back are: grocery stores and dining at restaurants (including takeout & eligible delivery services), home improvement stores and select charitable organizations. Redeem for purchases in these categories made with your Chase card with Ultimate Rewards.
After each purchase posts, you have 90 days to pay yourself back.
+50% MORE POINTS VALUE
You'll get 50% more value from your points when you pay yourself back for eligible purchases listed below.
How does Pay Yourself Back work?
Step icon one
HOW DO I PAY MYSELF BACK?
First select one or more recent eligible purchases listed and hit "Continue" to go to the next step. Then apply some or all of your available Ultimate Rewards points to each transaction you selected and hit "Confirm & Submit" to redeem your points for a statement credit.
Step icon two
HOW DO I APPLY MY POINTS TO SELECTED PURCHASES?
Enter a dollar amount for each transaction, up to the original purchase amount, based on your available Ultimate Rewards points balance. Or select "Apply Full Amount" and we'll apply your available points up to the full cost of each eligible purchase.
Step icon three
WHEN WILL I RECEIVE MY STATEMENT CREDIT?
Once you've submitted your order, it will take 2-3 days for your statement credit to appear on your account.
10/15/2020- Chase has added the Pay Yourself Back feature to the Ink Plus and Preferred Cards: https://www.chase.com/business/credit-cards/ink/inkofferscta?jp_aid_a=T_64096&jp_aid_p=chasehome_3/hero
3/10/2022 - Chase extended the PYB categories for Dining and Annual Fee until 6/30/2022 (was set to expire 3/31/2022) for CSR
9/28/2022 - Chase extended the PYB categories for Dining until 12/31/2022 (was set to expire 9/30/2022) for CSR
Pay Yourself Back Rotating Category "Extra bonus boost when using UR points for payment" option
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently, the categories for pay yourself back are: grocery stores and dining at restaurants (including takeout & eligible delivery services), home improvement stores and select charitable organizations. Redeem for purchases in these categories made with your Chase card with Ultimate Rewards.
After each purchase posts, you have 90 days to pay yourself back.
+50% MORE POINTS VALUE
You'll get 50% more value from your points when you pay yourself back for eligible purchases listed below.
How does Pay Yourself Back work?
Step icon one
HOW DO I PAY MYSELF BACK?
First select one or more recent eligible purchases listed and hit "Continue" to go to the next step. Then apply some or all of your available Ultimate Rewards points to each transaction you selected and hit "Confirm & Submit" to redeem your points for a statement credit.
Step icon two
HOW DO I APPLY MY POINTS TO SELECTED PURCHASES?
Enter a dollar amount for each transaction, up to the original purchase amount, based on your available Ultimate Rewards points balance. Or select "Apply Full Amount" and we'll apply your available points up to the full cost of each eligible purchase.
Step icon three
WHEN WILL I RECEIVE MY STATEMENT CREDIT?
Once you've submitted your order, it will take 2-3 days for your statement credit to appear on your account.
10/15/2020- Chase has added the Pay Yourself Back feature to the Ink Plus and Preferred Cards: https://www.chase.com/business/credit-cards/ink/inkofferscta?jp_aid_a=T_64096&jp_aid_p=chasehome_3/hero
3/10/2022 - Chase extended the PYB categories for Dining and Annual Fee until 6/30/2022 (was set to expire 3/31/2022) for CSR
9/28/2022 - Chase extended the PYB categories for Dining until 12/31/2022 (was set to expire 9/30/2022) for CSR
Pay Yourself Back - Sapphire Reserve & Preferred, INK Preferred & Plus (2020-2023)
Sep 28, 2020, 2:44 pm
#152
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,090
Sep 28, 2020, 5:40 pm
#153
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
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The 1.5c PYB on CSR is not good for "spending to earn the points for PYB need". It is much rather for people who feel they have outsize balance of UR pts that were originally geared for travel, now they have an avenue to liquidate those with similar value (forget about the perceived value on transferring to partners - those are perceived only, not actual $ from the pocket, for a good number of people anyway).
While the new Freedom cards earn 5x for the first 12 months on the grocery spend, the Freedom cards UR pts cannot be directly used for PYB on those grocery store purchases - ONLY when these transactions are made with the CSR then you can use the PYB to erase the amount...
The 1.5x value is great for us to reduce our combined UR balance by 4/5 thru Home Improvement and Grocery Store spends. Needless to say a lot of those pts are earned thru other UR cards than CSR, which only serves as the vehicle to redeem those points at a fairy reasonable, Real Value with Real $ and not Funny Money. It is much better to get back Real Money versus having the pts rotting in the accounts waiting for future travels (devaluation is a real danger, hence the word "rotting" is used).
Once again, Chase use smart marketing to confuse as many cardholders as it hopes to. And it seemingly succeeds.
While the new Freedom cards earn 5x for the first 12 months on the grocery spend, the Freedom cards UR pts cannot be directly used for PYB on those grocery store purchases - ONLY when these transactions are made with the CSR then you can use the PYB to erase the amount...
The 1.5x value is great for us to reduce our combined UR balance by 4/5 thru Home Improvement and Grocery Store spends. Needless to say a lot of those pts are earned thru other UR cards than CSR, which only serves as the vehicle to redeem those points at a fairy reasonable, Real Value with Real $ and not Funny Money. It is much better to get back Real Money versus having the pts rotting in the accounts waiting for future travels (devaluation is a real danger, hence the word "rotting" is used).
Once again, Chase use smart marketing to confuse as many cardholders as it hopes to. And it seemingly succeeds.
When did the freedom cards earn 5X at grocery stores? I opened my CF unlimited up in July and didn't get that offer. I think mine was 20K chase points after a small minimum spend.
If someone has 5pts/$ at grocery stores pay yourself back isn't a good use.
I was using my PNC 1.75% cash back card for every day spending since I don't know when travel will happen again but will start using the CF Unlimited now that Pay yourself back is here for a while. I have a lot of restaurant charges and would like to buy a new washer and dryer soon and my hvac may need replacing and I can do that through Lowes or Homedepot and won't have to use cash.
Sep 28, 2020, 6:01 pm
#154
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
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I don't understand how these two are related. One is the rate at which you earn points, the other is the valuation you are getting when you redeem them.
Sep 28, 2020, 8:12 pm
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
The concepts on the 2 activities are explained (multiple times already) in my post that is replied to, yet here is another comment on "why would anyone use CSR on grocery when Freedom earns 5x..."
A perfect example on how Chase successfully confuses so many people thru clever marketing... much like the $300 travel credit being "free money" perceived by a lot of CSR cardholders even a couple years after introduction...
Sep 28, 2020, 8:26 pm
#156
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I wish chase would broaden the charities for PYB. As long as the charity has a 501(c)(3) status you should be able to use the points.
Sep 28, 2020, 9:07 pm
#157
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Sep 28, 2020, 9:11 pm
#158
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 2,820
It was like when the local grocery stores started selling gift card with "gas discounts" when gas really surged in price. People started to realize that gas is a lot of money and adding a discount to said expensive gas was the greatest thing ever. Nevermind that it may have been a 1-2% discount that carried some negative consequences. There was no beating it in their minds.
No chance in hell do I see PYB remain with bonus earn categories and then a 50% redemption on top of that. It will remain as a "1% redemption" as a way for people to get more "value" from their points without costing anymore money. The bonus was an offer to get all of us from raging on Chase during COVID while advertising this new feature.
Sep 28, 2020, 9:33 pm
#159
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Assuming one has a CSR card and was lucky enough to get 5pts/$ at a grocery store that translates to 7.5 cents/$ if the points are transferred over to CSR and used for travel or another bonus category. Even if the points aren't transferred that is getting 5 percent back which is a better deal than using a CSR and paying it with points for grocery strore purchases unless someone has a lot of points they need to burn.
And the flip side of this is, if you think redeeming UR at 1.5cpm is a bad deal (and that's a completely reasonable position to have, depending on individual circumstances), then it's a bad deal regardless of *how* you acquired the points. UR points are fungible -- once they're in your account, they all spend the same, can be transferred the same, etc. -- if you think 1.5cpm is a bad deal, then it's a bad deal whether or not you have 5x at grocery stores.
Sep 29, 2020, 3:53 am
#160
Join Date: May 2011
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People have been redeeming UR points for 1.5 cents cash value for years through the travel portal (it seems like this is at least as popular as transferring to loyalty programs). So for many, using PYB is an equivalent good use of points. Where the value gets a bit more confused now is that you have to take into account the opportunity cost of putting the spend on the card.
Assuming someone is starting with zero UR, should they put groceries on a CSR in order to make them PYB eligible? Probably not. You give up the incremental 4% UR return, or 3% Amex return (Amex Gold) to get the opportunity to earn 4.5% back on 3x spending (dining, travel). The best case scenario for the CSR grocery pay yourself back was when CSR was earning 5x on grocery as well.
Home improvement and dining are the charges people should probably put on the CSR to take advantage of this benefit. Home improvement because very few cards offer spend bonuses for that category, and dining because you earn 3x on dining spending on a CSR, so you benefit both on the earn and the redeem. Charities are an option as well if you can fully write off this payment method (no clue if you can).
Assuming someone is starting with zero UR, should they put groceries on a CSR in order to make them PYB eligible? Probably not. You give up the incremental 4% UR return, or 3% Amex return (Amex Gold) to get the opportunity to earn 4.5% back on 3x spending (dining, travel). The best case scenario for the CSR grocery pay yourself back was when CSR was earning 5x on grocery as well.
Home improvement and dining are the charges people should probably put on the CSR to take advantage of this benefit. Home improvement because very few cards offer spend bonuses for that category, and dining because you earn 3x on dining spending on a CSR, so you benefit both on the earn and the redeem. Charities are an option as well if you can fully write off this payment method (no clue if you can).
Sep 29, 2020, 7:33 am
#161
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, AA ExecPlat, Amtrak Select Exec, former WN apologist
Posts: 1,424
Assuming someone is starting with zero UR, should they put groceries on a CSR in order to make them PYB eligible? Probably not. You give up the incremental 4% UR return, or 3% Amex return (Amex Gold) to get the opportunity to earn 4.5% back on 3x spending (dining, travel). The best case scenario for the CSR grocery pay yourself back was when CSR was earning 5x on grocery as well.
Sep 29, 2020, 2:49 pm
#162
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Assuming one has a CSR card and was lucky enough to get 5pts/$ at a grocery store that translates to 7.5 cents/$ if the points are transferred over to CSR and used for travel or another bonus category. Even if the points aren't transferred that is getting 5 percent back which is a better deal than using a CSR and paying it with points for grocery strore purchases unless someone has a lot of points they need to burn.
I think we're arriving at the same conclusion though, if you had a choice between 5x with a floor of 1.5cpm and 1x with a floor of 1.5 cpm why would you ever choose the latter?
Sep 29, 2020, 6:03 pm
#163
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Having thought about this a bit more, I think I get what you are saying now -- if what you're saying you shouldn't use CSR for groceries (at an inferior rate) for the express purpose of being able to use PYB to reimburse that same CSR grocery charge, if you have a card that has better grocery store earn. My apologies for misunderstanding.
I think we're arriving at the same conclusion though, if you had a choice between 5x with a floor of 1.5cpm and 1x with a floor of 1.5 cpm why would you ever choose the latter?
I think we're arriving at the same conclusion though, if you had a choice between 5x with a floor of 1.5cpm and 1x with a floor of 1.5 cpm why would you ever choose the latter?
Sep 29, 2020, 9:23 pm
#164
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,782
I don't know if this was discussed already in this long thread, but Pay Yourself Back has better value than using the points at the Travel Portal. If you use the points at Travel Portal, you don't earn any points for that transaction. If you pay for your grocery, even though the entire balance was paid using points, you still earn the 1x points on the purchase. If my math is correct, Pay Yourself Back point is valued at 1.52284 cents per point. Right? Or did I miss something?
Sep 29, 2020, 10:04 pm
#165
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 403
I think am getting a value of 1.57068 cents per point with PYB --
Let’s say I need to purchase $600 in groceries and $600 in travel.
The “old" way might be to purchase $600 in groceries with the CSR and redeem 40K UR for the $600 airline ticket. I’ve done something like this many times.
The great thing with PYB is that if I use the 40,000 UR with PYB to pay off the groceries and then use the CSR to purchase the $600 ticket at 3x, I earn 1800 UR.
So in this case the combined net spend is $600 for the ticket and 38,200 for the groceries.
So I got $600 of groceries for 38,200 UR = 1.57068 cents per UR
So this nets 4.71% return on 3x categories
and 7.88% return on 5x Ink office supply transferable UR, 5x Ink Shipping promo, etc
Is the math sound?
Last edited by shdflyer; Sep 29, 2020 at 10:26 pm
