Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Sep 15, 2022, 10:14 am
#886
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,255
I also prefer to minimize the number of Chase people looking at my accounts
Sep 15, 2022, 10:19 am
#887
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
The Unlimited was a CSR then CSP then Unlimited due to 100K offer on the new CSP last year. Haven’t used the 1.5% unlimited at all since Fido Visa is 2% across the board.
Thus wanted to close out the 1 year old CSP and product change the Unlimited back to CSP.
Sep 15, 2022, 10:23 am
#888
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AA GLD 1MM, WN CP, etc. etc.
Posts: 386
Doublechecking my math:
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
Sep 15, 2022, 11:04 am
#889
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,255
Doublechecking my math:
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
Assuming you use no other benefits on the card
Sep 15, 2022, 11:50 am
#890
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Independent of that confusion, I would suggest you PC the Unlimited to Freedom or Freedom Flex for the quarterly 5x. If you absolutely want to close a card (which I can understand), your plan (close SP, then PC Unlimited to SP) sounds like a satisfactory path to achieve the goal.
Sep 15, 2022, 1:22 pm
#891
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AA GLD 1MM, WN CP, etc. etc.
Posts: 386
...or get duplicative or better benefits from another card. (Capital One VX). Thanks for the doublecheck.
Sep 16, 2022, 1:57 pm
#893
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AA GLD 1MM, WN CP, etc. etc.
Posts: 386
DP: CSR since 2016, typical spend ~24K pa. Also have mortgage and IHG Select. Annual fee posted Sep. 1; called and asked if any retention offers; none. PC to FU.
Last edited by lairdb; Sep 16, 2022 at 2:09 pm
Sep 16, 2022, 3:02 pm
#894
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,064
It's the end of a long week and this made me laugh....I know that FU is the abbreviation for one of Chase's popular credit cards, but I was just imaging your exchange with the Chase rep.
LAIRDB: Good afternoon. Hoping to get a retention offer for my high spend and years of Chase Loyalty. I have a lot of products with Chase....
CHASE REP: Absolutely NO RETENTION OFFER FOR YOU.....Would you like to product change to our FU CARD?
LAIRDB: You bet...(hangs up phone in disgust...)
LAIRDB: Good afternoon. Hoping to get a retention offer for my high spend and years of Chase Loyalty. I have a lot of products with Chase....
CHASE REP: Absolutely NO RETENTION OFFER FOR YOU.....Would you like to product change to our FU CARD?
LAIRDB: You bet...(hangs up phone in disgust...)
Sep 18, 2022, 8:06 pm
#895
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 1,946
Doublechecking my math:
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
Last edited by EkekoBWI; Sep 18, 2022 at 8:36 pm
Sep 18, 2022, 8:26 pm
#896
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Programs: American, SWA, United, IHG,Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 1,843
Doublechecking my math:
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
Sep 19, 2022, 9:25 am
#897
Join Date: May 2001
Location: SAN
Programs: AA GLD 1MM, WN CP, etc. etc.
Posts: 386
Doublechecking my math:
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
On travel and dining spend, on CSR, I get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.
On travel and dining spend, on BofA PR, I get 3.5% cash back.
That's a differential of 1%. At a $550 AF for the CSR, less the $300 travel credit, excluding other benefits, I'd need 1/1% * $250 = $25K of travel spend for the CSR AF to be worth it. (Or, if I can get a $150 retention offer as some have reported, then the travel spend needed becomes 1/1% * $100 = $10K.)
Yes, I'm omitting other benefits -- but on that basis, does my math check? Thanks.
Thought I did: “…get 3 points, which I value at 1.5cpp, for a 4.5% return.” Using a 1.5cpp accounts for that value, in my personal calculation. (If you value the transfer partner stuff higher, then you might assign a higher cpp, resulting in a higher return differential in the CSR’s favor.)
Sep 29, 2022, 4:58 pm
#898
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,203
Input into my thinking here.
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
Sep 29, 2022, 5:32 pm
#899
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 4,347
Input into my thinking here.
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
Sep 30, 2022, 9:11 am
#900
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,255
Input into my thinking here.
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
No new Chase cards in the past 48 months. Fee for CSR increasing. I have 250K UR points. A good use of CSR for me was the PP benefit, but my travel is a bit less than it has been in the past.
Thinking of applying got the CSP, meeting the minumum spend, and getting the UR points bonus. And once Ihave the CSP in hand, cancel the CSR so I won't lose existing UR points.
Is my thinking correct?
Thanks!
After that is done, get the Preferred.