Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Jun 27, 2022, 8:28 am
#856
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 81
At the time I got the card, I figured I'd convert to a Sapphire Reserve after a year for the $300 back on travel, the 3x points on travel (I haven't ever purchased travel through the Chase portal as it seems cumbersome and limited), and the restaurant benefit of Priority Pass.
Jun 27, 2022, 7:31 pm
#857
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 8,937
Thanks; I thought that was the case, that the portal is only needed for the extra points per dollar and the additional value when using points as cash (but my plan is to transfer the points to an airline and redeem for flights). Now I'm not sure the Sapphire Reserve is worth the extra $155 annual fee over the Preferred ($550 - $300 - $95 = $155). I'd get the Priority Pass restaurant benefit and 3x instead of 2x points on travel expenses There's "Premium Travel Benefits" but I'm not sure what they are. The rest of the advantages seem to be stuff I wouldn't use, such as purchasing trips, hotels, dining via their portal.
Jun 29, 2022, 9:42 am
#858
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 303
Should I downgrade or cancel my Sapphire reserve card?
I already have Freedom and Freedom Unlimited.
What's my best course of action?
Thanks in advance.
I already have Freedom and Freedom Unlimited.
What's my best course of action?
Thanks in advance.
Jun 29, 2022, 10:15 am
#859
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,060
I take Lyft a few times per month and the Flex gives 5X back on Lyft. Good Luck.
Jun 30, 2022, 4:01 pm
#860
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 262
(I wish I had the link that mentioned this but I don't)
Jun 30, 2022, 8:55 pm
#861
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,888
FWIW I downgraded a CSP to a Freedom in mid April.
Jul 5, 2022, 5:52 am
#862
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,303
If you cancel well after the date to get full AF refunded on CSR, do they prorate it 1/12 for each month your into your annual cycle? If my AF hit 3/1, and I cancel this week, what will I be refunded on my AF ?
Jul 5, 2022, 8:20 am
#863
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rockies
Programs: UA Platinum, HHonors Diamond, Bonvoy occasionally Bonvoyed Mostly
Posts: 428
If you are outside of the 30 day window after the AF posted, you shouldn't be cancelling as you won't get any refund. You can downgrade to a CSP or the no AF Sapphire (or the Freedom/FU) and get a prorated refund of your AF. Your refund will likely be pro-rated based on the months left (you will likely pay for Mar, Apr, May, Jun and July)
Jul 5, 2022, 8:24 am
#864
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,303
If you are outside of the 30 day window after the AF posted, you shouldn't be cancelling as you won't get any refund. You can downgrade to a CSP or the no AF Sapphire (or the Freedom/FU) and get a prorated refund of your AF. Your refund will likely be pro-rated based on the months left (you will likely pay for Mar, Apr, May, Jun and July)
Jul 5, 2022, 9:14 am
#865
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,434
I assume you could PC to Sapphire Preferred and get a partial refund (and pay the SP fee). In other words, I believe it is incorrect to say, "I would need to product change to a no AF card".
Jul 5, 2022, 10:40 am
#866
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
If you are outside of the 30 day window after the AF posted, you shouldn't be cancelling as you won't get any refund. You can downgrade to a CSP or the no AF Sapphire (or the Freedom/FU) and get a prorated refund of your AF. Your refund will likely be pro-rated based on the months left (you will likely pay for Mar, Apr, May, Jun and July)
Jul 5, 2022, 10:44 am
#867
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 2,249
I had my CSP set to renew in June, downgraded it in April and got 19 back
Jul 7, 2022, 2:51 pm
#868
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL, BHM, DUB, County Wexford
Programs: DL DM, AA ExPlt, Diamond HH, HY, BW, & Titanium Elite Marriott
Posts: 4,855
I seem to be running up against a wall with this PC to RC from Bold. The year elapsed in May, they increased the c/l to 12k to meet the 10k requirement, waited for another statement cycle and no option to PC other than to a Bold Signature card is available. Got transferred to a manager that said there was no escalation, just keep checking back. He checked and said there was nothing preventing the offer, but it wasn't there.
Any ideas of a solution?
Any ideas of a solution?
Jul 17, 2022, 5:11 pm
#869
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 304
Keep, discard, change cards
MileagePlus Select. $95 per year. 2miles per $5000 UA miles every March 3rd. (Cancel?)
MileagePlus Explorer. $95 March 1st. Free bag. GE/TSA $100 rebate. No Foreign Fees. Priority Boarding. Two Club Passes. Primary Collision Insurance Coverage.
Sapphire Reserve CDW Primary. Medical/Dental/Transport. Extended Warranty. Roadside Assistance. Travel Insurance. $300 travel rebate. $550 a year
I have these and I'm overwhelmed by the choices today.
3MM investments.
Income @ 140K joint
My spending pattern is @ 60K annually on cards.
My travel pattern has been near zero the past two years but intending to start doing international business class next year. Business class is not worth doing on domestic.
I believe the CHASE Ultimate Rewards are like cash on United and therefore offer accrual for elite status?
Can I move to a different/cheaper CHASE card that provides Ultimate Rewards?
I paid the annual Sapphire fee in March. Should I keep it until March 2023 before trying to change.
If I change to another card do I get the sign on bonus?
TY!
MileagePlus Explorer. $95 March 1st. Free bag. GE/TSA $100 rebate. No Foreign Fees. Priority Boarding. Two Club Passes. Primary Collision Insurance Coverage.
Sapphire Reserve CDW Primary. Medical/Dental/Transport. Extended Warranty. Roadside Assistance. Travel Insurance. $300 travel rebate. $550 a year
I have these and I'm overwhelmed by the choices today.
3MM investments.
Income @ 140K joint
My spending pattern is @ 60K annually on cards.
My travel pattern has been near zero the past two years but intending to start doing international business class next year. Business class is not worth doing on domestic.
I believe the CHASE Ultimate Rewards are like cash on United and therefore offer accrual for elite status?
Can I move to a different/cheaper CHASE card that provides Ultimate Rewards?
I paid the annual Sapphire fee in March. Should I keep it until March 2023 before trying to change.
If I change to another card do I get the sign on bonus?
TY!
Jul 17, 2022, 5:21 pm
#870
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
You can downgrade Sapphire Reserve to any Freedom card, and then apply for Sapphire Preferred to earn a new account bonus, provided it has been 48 months since most recent Sapphire new account bonus was received.
Last edited by mia; Jul 26, 2022 at 7:18 am
