Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Feb 20, 2022, 12:39 pm
#721
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CHS
Posts: 143
Hi, I have had the CSR for 3 years. I don't see the extra $200 in value (once the $300 travel is used which is easy). I had a question about downgrading to a CSP - is the $50 hotel credit available *using reward pts) if I PC or do I have to wait until next year's $95 fee?
Feb 20, 2022, 7:14 pm
#722
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: AA EXP, UA MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 101
Hi, I have had the CSR for 3 years. I don't see the extra $200 in value (once the $300 travel is used which is easy). I had a question about downgrading to a CSP - is the $50 hotel credit available *using reward pts) if I PC or do I have to wait until next year's $95 fee?
" $0 of $50 earned. You have until your statement closing date on 02/25/2023 to earn towards this year's statement credit. Earn up to $50 in statement credits each account anniversary year for hotel stays purchased through Ultimate Rewards."
The way I read it is that I earn it over the next 12 months but its not credited until next February.
Feb 20, 2022, 7:51 pm
#723
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 831
I think it means once you’ve reached $50 in credits, you won’t get any more until next February when it resets. I’d guess it would be like the CSR travel credit, in that it would be credited immediately.
Mar 2, 2022, 7:18 am
#724
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Florida
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Delta Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 241
Does anyone know if we can still PC a Business Ink Preferred to the Business Ink PLUS card? Thank you!
Mar 6, 2022, 8:32 am
#725
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 91
Could use some help determining whether to keep my CSR
I have the Chase Trifecta, but it's no longer as valuable to me as it was 3+ years ago:
- I now have the Alliant Visa Signature 2.5% card for most general purchases, so my Chase Freedom Unlimited sits in a sock drawer (not worth the complication just for drug stores).
- Additionally, I mostly stay at Hilton's, and have the Hilton Aspire for most hotel purchases -- so my largest historic 3x travel purchase is now gone.
- Finally, I have an Amex Platinum for at least the next year (they gave me a retention offer), so I have all the other perks... travel insurance, TSA/Global entry credit, lounge access, etc.
My CSR just renewed at $550. I'm thinking about burning the $300 travel credit and then downgrading to a CSP. However:
- I do find Dashpass useful. As much as I try not to use it, I end up using doordash about twice per week. That adds up. I'll definitely use the upcoming $5 monthly credit if anything.
- I have an Ink Unlimited for a legit business that gets about $75k/year on it. The extra .25% value in points when using PYB does matter to me, but I could honestly just start transferring to Hyatt instead of using PYB.
- If I downgrade, I won't have anything at 3x to put Uber / Lyft / subways / trains expenses on, which maybe adds up to $2000/year. Negligible, 2x is still good.
Having trouble deciding whether to pull the trigger. Curious if others have gone through similar math.
- I now have the Alliant Visa Signature 2.5% card for most general purchases, so my Chase Freedom Unlimited sits in a sock drawer (not worth the complication just for drug stores).
- Additionally, I mostly stay at Hilton's, and have the Hilton Aspire for most hotel purchases -- so my largest historic 3x travel purchase is now gone.
- Finally, I have an Amex Platinum for at least the next year (they gave me a retention offer), so I have all the other perks... travel insurance, TSA/Global entry credit, lounge access, etc.
My CSR just renewed at $550. I'm thinking about burning the $300 travel credit and then downgrading to a CSP. However:
- I do find Dashpass useful. As much as I try not to use it, I end up using doordash about twice per week. That adds up. I'll definitely use the upcoming $5 monthly credit if anything.
- I have an Ink Unlimited for a legit business that gets about $75k/year on it. The extra .25% value in points when using PYB does matter to me, but I could honestly just start transferring to Hyatt instead of using PYB.
- If I downgrade, I won't have anything at 3x to put Uber / Lyft / subways / trains expenses on, which maybe adds up to $2000/year. Negligible, 2x is still good.
Having trouble deciding whether to pull the trigger. Curious if others have gone through similar math.
Mar 6, 2022, 10:57 am
#726
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Many are questioning the value of the CSR. When I decided it no longer made sense, I ditched it. But I did not downgrade to a CSP. Instead I applied for the CSP to get its sign-up bonus... not that said bonus is particularly attractive at this moment.
Mar 6, 2022, 11:04 am
#727
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Programs: American, SWA, United, IHG,Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 1,840
Same. I question the value. I downgraded my reserve. Not much travel right now and the added $100 just pushed it over the not worth it anymore point. Maybe when travel kicks back up for me I’ll upgrade back to reserve if I find value in it.
Mar 6, 2022, 1:10 pm
#728
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 91
Did you burn your $300 travel credit before downgrading?
Mar 6, 2022, 1:13 pm
#729
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Programs: American, SWA, United, IHG,Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 1,840
so my situation is more complicated than that. My spouse has a preferred. So I downgraded to a freedom. Yes. I spent the $300 a while ago. So there was nothing worth keeping the reserve. $250 was too much to just have 3x travel and 3x restaurants. When unlimited has 3x restaurants and my Costco has 3x travel or 2x on preferred.
Mar 6, 2022, 3:29 pm
#730
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 635
It’s not possible to product change from Southwest Personal card to a United personal card correct? Or a Southwest Business card to United Business card?
Mar 6, 2022, 5:38 pm
#731
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: AA LTP, UA, DL, HH, Marriott/SPG
Posts: 585
I have a 20+ year old United card (now Gateway). Last year, I opened a Untied Business card that comes with annual 5K miles for also holding personal United card. United biz $99 AF just came up and no offers available. CSR said I can use pay myself back to cover AF. 6,600 UA miles to get $99 credit. Normally, I wouldn't do that. But, then I realized that now I'll get 5K anniversary miles (miles have not yet posted). So, for a total net cost of 1,600 miles, I can keep UA biz card, in addition to my UA personal card. I decided that it's worth it to me. So, I kept the UA biz card.
Mar 7, 2022, 5:08 am
#732
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,004
Mar 9, 2022, 12:51 pm
#733
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
Is it possible to end up with 2 IHG Premier cards?
Does anyone know if you have the IHG Traveler card AND the IHG Premier card, if Chase will allow you to upgrade the Traveler card to the Premier card, allowing you to end up with 2 Premier cards? Appreciate any experience people have with this they are willing to share.
Mar 9, 2022, 2:41 pm
#734
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Does anyone know if you have the IHG Traveler card AND the IHG Premier card, if Chase will allow you to upgrade the Traveler card to the Premier card, allowing you to end up with 2 Premier cards? Appreciate any experience people have with this they are willing to share.
The real question is why you'd want to do this. Upcoming TSA application fees for more than one person?
Mar 9, 2022, 2:58 pm
#735
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 49
Mostly for the extra free night benefit per year. With the upcoming changes allowing you to top off the 40,000 point "free night certificates," the free night that the Premier comes with is worth at least $200 to me, especially since I have lots of IHG points from sign-up bonuses I can use to top off to nicer hotels. $200 in annual fees for $400+ in lodging is a pretty good trade off to me. Or am I missing something?