Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Nov 9, 2021, 9:14 am
#616
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
I'm happy for you and thank you for sharing your data point. However, I would like to see more data points matching yours before the wiki entry quoted below is changed.
My experience, from around August of 2021, is consistent with the wiki. I recognize that Chase might have changed its policy and that Chase might apply its policy erratically.
My experience, from around August of 2021, is consistent with the wiki. I recognize that Chase might have changed its policy and that Chase might apply its policy erratically.
When the other Premier card in our household is nearing its first anniversary in the spring, I'll inquire again. Until then, anyone holding a Premier card older than a year can test the current policy at no risk by sending a "just asking questions" SM to Chase about the available downgrade option.
Nov 9, 2021, 6:34 pm
#617
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 241
Calling to downgrade my CSR... it's day 39 after the charge appeared. When I call after entering the last four of my card number I am told that due to extenuating circumstances they are unable to answer my call. I'm then hung up on. Great service! More reason to downgrade or cancel. Definitely not worth the new annual fee.
[EDIT] After trying six times within about 10 minutes, I got through with no wait at all. Very odd. It's as if you can connect right away or not connect at all. In any case, downgraded to a second Freedom Flex. No issues whatsoever. I may eventually open a Sapphire Preferred, but probably not until next year. The Freedom Flex has been great so far, especially this quarter with the additional bonus on the highest spend bonus category. Also, I logged into my Chase account about 5 minutes later and noticed the new card showing available. I was surprised but all of the accrued points from my CSR since the last statement appear to now be immediately available in my new account. I'm not sure if this always happens on a downgrade or perhaps because of the switch from Visa to Mastercard.
[EDIT] After trying six times within about 10 minutes, I got through with no wait at all. Very odd. It's as if you can connect right away or not connect at all. In any case, downgraded to a second Freedom Flex. No issues whatsoever. I may eventually open a Sapphire Preferred, but probably not until next year. The Freedom Flex has been great so far, especially this quarter with the additional bonus on the highest spend bonus category. Also, I logged into my Chase account about 5 minutes later and noticed the new card showing available. I was surprised but all of the accrued points from my CSR since the last statement appear to now be immediately available in my new account. I'm not sure if this always happens on a downgrade or perhaps because of the switch from Visa to Mastercard.
Last edited by dave456; Nov 9, 2021 at 7:00 pm
Nov 13, 2021, 5:57 pm
#618
Join Date: May 2019
Programs: AS MVPG, Bonvoy gold
Posts: 6
Chase Sapphire Reserve to Feedom?
I can't justify the new AF for the new Chase Sapphire Reserve. My original plan was to downgrade to a Freedom Card, wait a month or two and then apply for the Chase Sapphire Preferred and collect the 60K bonus. But I just learned that once I downgrade to the Freedom card I will no longer be able to transfer the points to Airline Partners. I heard this process still works, as I should be able to transfer my points back to a Sapphire Account, once I open it. I opened my existing Sapphire account in 2017.
Has anyone tried this? Any issues out there?
Has anyone tried this? Any issues out there?
Nov 13, 2021, 7:31 pm
#619
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
If you downgrade Reserve to Freedom you can apply for Sapphire Preferred after four days. However, to be eligible to open a Sapphire Preferred account you must not hold any Sapphire care (including the free version) -and- it must have been 48 months since you received any Sapphire (Reserve or Preferred) bonus. You need to lookup the date that the bonus was credited to your account, NOT the date the account was opened.
Nov 15, 2021, 9:19 pm
#620
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 470
I see that the $89 got credited and the IHG card traveler logo is showing instead of the premier...
Nov 27, 2021, 12:43 pm
#621
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: Hyatt Glb, MR Plat
Posts: 2,577
Do accounts upgraded to the Reserve immediately have access to this $300 credit? e.g. upgrading from Preferred 1-2 months prior to anniversary and receiving the $300 credit before and after the anniversary.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Nov 27, 2021, 12:52 pm
#622
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,884
Do accounts upgraded to the Reserve immediately have access to this $300 credit? e.g. upgrading from Preferred 1-2 months prior to anniversary and receiving the $300 credit before and after the anniversary.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Credit is now based on your renewal cycle, so I suspect your full credit won’t be available until whenever your full annual fee gets assessed(or billing cycle for that). When it first came out, the credit was done by calendar year, but they changed it when too many people were getting the card and canceling after the first year, but taking advantage of two credits.
Nov 27, 2021, 1:08 pm
#623
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 33
For those who downgrade CSR to CSP after the full refund period, how long did it take for the prorated refund to hit? I'm still waiting for mine after 2 weeks. I undercounted the number of days before calling in to downgrade :-/
Nov 27, 2021, 3:47 pm
#624
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SFO
Posts: 175
CSR transferring points
My AF hits 12/1/21 and l don't expect to get an offer. I only have about 100K URs (PYB was good to me). Isn't it better to transfer these points to my husbands Ink at 1.25X than to DG to a Freedom where I only get 1X? I had originally transferred about half of the points FROM his Ink-- will that be a problem transferring back?
Nov 27, 2021, 3:58 pm
#625
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
You can downgrade to Freedom and Combine with your husband's account later, or you can Combine now. The end result is the same, the points will move to his card 1:1 in all cases. Which INK card does he have: Cash, Unlimited or Preferred?
Nov 27, 2021, 4:00 pm
#626
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 1,946
My AF hits 12/1/21 and l don't expect to get an offer. I only have about 100K URs (PYB was good to me). Isn't it better to transfer these points to my husbands Ink at 1.25X than to DG to a Freedom where I only get 1X? I had originally transferred about half of the points FROM his Ink-- will that be a problem transferring back?
Nov 27, 2021, 5:44 pm
#627
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SFO
Posts: 175
It's an older card. Ink Business Plus. I used to do a lot of Mfg. Spending 5+ years ago but haven't kept up with anything for the last couple years and now we still have 20 cards between us, huge amounts of credit and no rent, mortgage or much of anything we can pay by CC.
Nov 27, 2021, 5:49 pm
#628
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SFO
Posts: 175
see my previous response, I don't even know what a Chase Sapphire Preferred "SUB" is? Again, we just don't have any expenses we can pay by CC. We live in a retirement community, food provided, rent must be paid by check. Very few monthly exp. to pay a min. spend and I'm too old to start learning about mfg. spending again.
I guess I'm thinking about the 1.5X from the CSR that I got with pay yourself back? Isn't there some extra redemption value of a CSR over an Ink or Freedom-- I guess I'm thinking of transferring to travel partners? You can tell it's been awhile since I've done much with CCs.
I guess I'm thinking about the 1.5X from the CSR that I got with pay yourself back? Isn't there some extra redemption value of a CSR over an Ink or Freedom-- I guess I'm thinking of transferring to travel partners? You can tell it's been awhile since I've done much with CCs.
Last edited by annhedonia; Nov 27, 2021 at 6:11 pm
Nov 27, 2021, 7:20 pm
#629
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Do accounts upgraded to the Reserve immediately have access to this $300 credit? e.g. upgrading from Preferred 1-2 months prior to anniversary and receiving the $300 credit before and after the anniversary.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Also, it seems like Chase doesn't bill the AF soon either. Prior experience with multiple Marriott cards in the family, it was billed in October even though anniversary is in May and the upgrades occurred in June.
Saw a blogger post for Reserve upgrade and his AF was also billed in October with an anniversary and upgrade in June.
Last edited by pallhedge; Nov 27, 2021 at 7:21 pm Reason: grammar
Nov 28, 2021, 3:12 am
#630
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
The 1.5 and 1.25 rates apply -only- when you purchase travel through Chase's travel agency portal, or use the Pay Yourself Back feature. It does not apply when Transferring points to airline or hotel programs. It does not apply when Combining points from one UR account to another.