Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Mar 24, 2021, 8:39 am
#316
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: WN, DL, UA, AA, Hilton, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 1,303
Just had a odd experience with trying to close my Marriott Boundless card. I knew I wanted to close it, so I sent a message through their online messaging system. Instead of just closing it (per past experiences), they called me to try to get me to retain it and/or downgrade to the Bold card. No incentives offered for doing so, even though I cited "not traveling right now" as the main reason for wanting to close it (so having status with Marriott through the card is of little value). All in all, a little odd and annoying.
Mar 29, 2021, 12:28 pm
#317
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Gold, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 35
Just tried to Product Change from United Explorer MileagePlus Business Card to United Club Business Card. Fully willing to pay $450 annual fee. Was told by two agents that it was not an option, I could only PC to the new United Business Card (not worth it).
Will most likely make a new application for the United Club Business Card and earn the 50k SUB. With vaccine and travel picking up in 2H21, I can get value from lounge access and Hertz President's Circle even with the $450 annual fee. Also, I suspect the card will be refreshed soon into a new product similar to the United Club Infinite Card with a higher annual fee.
Will most likely make a new application for the United Club Business Card and earn the 50k SUB. With vaccine and travel picking up in 2H21, I can get value from lounge access and Hertz President's Circle even with the $450 annual fee. Also, I suspect the card will be refreshed soon into a new product similar to the United Club Infinite Card with a higher annual fee.
Apr 5, 2021, 8:41 pm
#318
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: Amex Plat, CSR
Posts: 46
Question for the group, I've been a CSR holder since the cards inception in 2016. I am looking to get in on the CSP 80K bonus. I already have a chase freedom and I am under Chase's 5/24 rule, which route would be best to ensure I get the 80K CSP bonus? 1) PC/downgrade my CSR to freedom flex (or any 0 annual fee card) then apply for the CSP or 2)cancel my CSR (take the credit hit) and apply for CSP? Is there a buffer period I should wait to apply for the CSP once I either PC or cancel the CSR? Thanks in advance!
Apr 5, 2021, 9:14 pm
#319
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,344
Question for the group, I've been a CSR holder since the cards inception in 2016. I am looking to get in on the CSP 80K bonus. I already have a chase freedom and I am under Chase's 5/24 rule, which route would be best to ensure I get the 80K CSP bonus? 1) PC/downgrade my CSR to freedom flex (or any 0 annual fee card) then apply for the CSP or 2)cancel my CSR (take the credit hit) and apply for CSP? Is there a buffer period I should wait to apply for the CSP once I either PC or cancel the CSR? Thanks in advance!
See #1203.
Apr 16, 2021, 1:39 pm
#320
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 727
Will Chase approve a person for the CSR if they have not met the 48 months since earning the last bonus? In other words, will they approve you for a CSR but not allow you to earn the bonus?
thanks
thanks
Apr 19, 2021, 10:48 am
#323
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,899
Just wondering if I'll get a hard pull if I am declined because I'm over 5/24?
Apr 20, 2021, 7:02 am
#326
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
You asked specifically about the CSR and my answer was based on that specific card. It was not a blanket statement.
Apr 22, 2021, 5:31 pm
#327
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 6
I product changed from CSR to CSP at beginning of the year because was about to hit the annual fee, and realized it didn't make sense for my partner and I to both have the card. Luckily, received the $300 travel credit since it appears it was based on calendar year not cardmember year.
May 3, 2021, 8:27 am
#328
Join Date: Jun 2019
Programs: UA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 139
I have CSR 3 years, and a CFF. Trying to decide whether to downgrade to CFU or keep CSR. I got a renewal at $450 but I’ve already used the 2021 DoorDash, so I see it as a net $150 AF with travel credit. I liquidated all my UR on PYB because I didn’t want to keep the card at $550 annual fee 
when MR have better partners and the Gold card has the monthly rebates 
and airline fee rebates (RIP)
I haven’t spent much on CSR this year since I have Amex Gold, and BofA PR with 75% bonus. As I see it, the CSR gives me a marginal +1% cash back on hotels, rental cars, parking, transit, so it’s only worth it on the margin if I charge $15k in hotels and non-Lyft other travel. Maybe I should put some value on the rental car insurance, but we barely rented cars even before the supply shock.
Clearly I should downgrade, but A DoC comment last month said that Chase was going to announce an actual product refresh this summer and potentially a better integration with Sapphire Banking or CPC.
So keeping it turns into a bet that any features will be worth more than $150... thoughts?
when MR have better partners and the Gold card has the monthly rebates and airline fee rebates (RIP)I haven’t spent much on CSR this year since I have Amex Gold, and BofA PR with 75% bonus. As I see it, the CSR gives me a marginal +1% cash back on hotels, rental cars, parking, transit, so it’s only worth it on the margin if I charge $15k in hotels and non-Lyft other travel. Maybe I should put some value on the rental car insurance, but we barely rented cars even before the supply shock.
Clearly I should downgrade, but A DoC comment last month said that Chase was going to announce an actual product refresh this summer and potentially a better integration with Sapphire Banking or CPC.
So keeping it turns into a bet that any features will be worth more than $150... thoughts?
May 4, 2021, 11:52 am
#329
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: Hyatt Glob; AA ExPlat; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 317
4 years on CSR, downgraded after using up the 300 annual credit and get the prorated annual fee refunded. Will apply for the 80k CSP offer and maybe upgrade back to CSR next year when travel picks up.
May 7, 2021, 7:33 pm
#330
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 16
Any credit check on a CSP -> CSR upgrade?
I have a CSP card right now with a bunch of UR points and am looking at upgrading it to CSR for the better travel redemption rate. Unfortunately I had a statement post last month with a large balance, and my credit score took a dive. I expect it to be back to normal soon, but in the interim does anyone know if that could impact my upgrade request? I know there’s no hard pull, but is there a soft pull? I already have a $10k+ available credit line on the card, so no issues with that requirement.