Sep 6, 19, 9:04 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Chase Shut Down thread: (Archived version found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1526572-chase-closed-my-credit-card-account-s-consolidated.html]
There is a general Shut Down thread in the Manufactured Spend forum, found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1948543-2019-shutdown-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
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What happened?
When someone reports an account closure here, people are curious as to both the background on the Chase relationship and any/all potential shut down triggers. Please answer any relevant questions to give details. This could help figure out what happened or how you could proceed:
There is a general Shut Down thread in the Manufactured Spend forum, found here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manufactured-spending/1948543-2019-shutdown-thread.html
If you feel your account has been unfairly closed, consider filing a complaint with the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau:
CFPB's complaint form: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened?
When someone reports an account closure here, people are curious as to both the background on the Chase relationship and any/all potential shut down triggers. Please answer any relevant questions to give details. This could help figure out what happened or how you could proceed:
- Background: Do you have both Credit Cards and Banking accounts with Chase? Tell us your history at Chase. What do you feel the trigger could have been? Does anything unusual (from the bankers perspective) go on in your accounts? How long have you had a banking relationship with Chase? Please explain.
- Ultimate Rewards: Did you transfer UR points to someone with a different address? Different last names? Did you sell UR points to someone?
- Potentially suspicious activities: Do you use multiple sources to pay your credit card bills, such as Walmart Bill Pay? Do you ACH using multiple accounts? Did you recently wire transfer large amounts into or out of your Chase accounts?
- Bonus Earnings: Approximately what percentage of your charges earned less than 5x points in the past 12 months?
- Other possible Triggers:
- Did a Chase or non-Chase bank recently close one of your credit cards?
- Are you using up a large percentage of your credit line or cycling the credit lines on all Chase and non-Chase credit cards?
- Is your total credit line with Chase much higher than with other banks?
- Did you apply for many credit cards or other forms of credit recently? Has your credit score or credit profile changed recently? As in: significantly more debt, more open credit lines, or a large drop in your credit score? Do you mimic a "bust out" profile? (Someone maxing out credit prior to filing bankruptcy)
- If you have a Chase checking account how much did you typically deposit in money orders per month, if any?
- Did you recently start spending a lot more with Chase than in typical months?
- Is your monthly balance frequently close to your credit limit?
- Did you abuse the Chase Refer a Friend system?
- Did you use/abuse Chase's new checking/savings sign up bonus incentives?
- Did you bounce a check for a credit card payment?
- DId someone at your address get shut down also?
- Do you have a Chase mortgage or other accounts at Chase? Are they in good standing?
- Did you dispute or return items on your credit cards? How many times?
- Have you recently needed back office help on your accounts, which may have triggered a review or called attention to something?
Chase Shut Downs & Credit-Card Account Closures: Data, Tales & Speculation 2019-on
Oct 5, 18, 9:07 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston
Programs: UA 1K and Million Miler, *A Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hertz Five Star,
Posts: 1,297
I am sorry... but I am not breaking any laws nor am I doing something that is against the terms of the card.
Can't they say that 5x isn't on gc purchases if they wanted to? they can easily do that like many others who apply such rules.
I am not cheating anyone. This comes at quite a price for me at time spent.
If they indeed shut you down over something like this and they say that it is because they don't like your usage then they are the one at fault as I did not break any rules.
That is irrelevant of course because you won't win that argument with them as they probably are allowed to close account for whatever reason they care to (unsafe usage for example which has no real definition).
But as far as thinking this isn't legitimate? I beg to differ.
Can't they say that 5x isn't on gc purchases if they wanted to? they can easily do that like many others who apply such rules.
I am not cheating anyone. This comes at quite a price for me at time spent.
If they indeed shut you down over something like this and they say that it is because they don't like your usage then they are the one at fault as I did not break any rules.
That is irrelevant of course because you won't win that argument with them as they probably are allowed to close account for whatever reason they care to (unsafe usage for example which has no real definition).
But as far as thinking this isn't legitimate? I beg to differ.
Oct 5, 18, 10:18 pm
#17
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 205
It sounds as though the OP might be a novice when it comes to schemes such as these. Perhaps he read an article on TPG and found out that he can get extra UR by doing what he proposed to do. This is the type of ham-handed behavior from bloggers that rankles the masses here on FT.
Back on topic, the OP did not keep abreast of developments regarding potential shutdown of the "abusers" by the big banks which, hopefully, have been plentiful on TPG since many are aware of it in this forum but perhaps he hasn't had much time lately. He just doesn't want to get caught with his pants down and is looking for reassurance from other posters. No harm in that.
Where he might be lacking in understanding is the point when Chase puts a value on his relationship. No one outside of Chase knows the algorithm and when it reports that so-and-so needs to fired because of certain behaviors. That is the entire point behind the shutdown thread. It could be 5 years for you or it could be 400k over the course of 1 year. One has to decide if one is ready to cut ties potentially. As others have said, one should be quick to transfer out points as they're earned so one can minimize the potential for forfeiture if Chase rules that that person has stepped over the line. They're usually pretty good about not being that petty but one never knows.
Back on topic, the OP did not keep abreast of developments regarding potential shutdown of the "abusers" by the big banks which, hopefully, have been plentiful on TPG since many are aware of it in this forum but perhaps he hasn't had much time lately. He just doesn't want to get caught with his pants down and is looking for reassurance from other posters. No harm in that.
Where he might be lacking in understanding is the point when Chase puts a value on his relationship. No one outside of Chase knows the algorithm and when it reports that so-and-so needs to fired because of certain behaviors. That is the entire point behind the shutdown thread. It could be 5 years for you or it could be 400k over the course of 1 year. One has to decide if one is ready to cut ties potentially. As others have said, one should be quick to transfer out points as they're earned so one can minimize the potential for forfeiture if Chase rules that that person has stepped over the line. They're usually pretty good about not being that petty but one never knows.
Last edited by Oreto; Oct 5, 18 at 10:19 pm Reason: Matching subjects
Oct 6, 18, 7:21 am
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 205
It sounds as if you are, because you agreed to this statement when you opened the account: you agree that the card is being used only for business purposes . I am not saying that Chase typically cares how business cards are used, but if they were looking to justify a shutdown this would be a reason.
Buying gift cards alone is not manufactured spending. MS only occurs if the cards are subsequently liquidated for money. Typically this involves purchase of VISA or similar cards. It sounds as if bklgafly intends to buy merchant gift cards and redeem them for goods or services to be used in the renovation. I would call this category shifting. Chase still may not like it, but it doesn't represent the same credit risk.
Buying gift cards alone is not manufactured spending. MS only occurs if the cards are subsequently liquidated for money. Typically this involves purchase of VISA or similar cards. It sounds as if bklgafly intends to buy merchant gift cards and redeem them for goods or services to be used in the renovation. I would call this category shifting. Chase still may not like it, but it doesn't represent the same credit risk.
I do not, nor have I ever plan to, "liquidate" my cards. For my renovation, which is a business expenses FYI (rental property), I will buy mostly home depot and amazon cards (you'd be surprised how many building materials & tools are for sale at great prices at amazon) and will use them at those merchants.
Mia - I was also under the impression that what I am doing is not MS as I do not "fake" my spending. I indeed use my merchant cards at the merchant stores. Very relived to see you agree.
I did buy quite a few (4k in all) visa cards in the last staples sale but again - used it for regular spend (still have 1k left) and not liquidate. I do not foresee myself doing that more as it is time consuming.
Jeanie did make a good point though which will alter my spending... and is that I should not be too greedy. So I will try to reduce GC usage where the effect is minimal. So for store pick up I will use freedom+portal - giving me a mere 1.5p loss (3.5 vs 5 at today's portal rates). So my strategy now will be to first check how close I can get to 5 points without gc so to shift my spend a bit. I will also not use airbnb, uber, or delta gc anymore... instead take a small loss and use CSR instead.
I spent quite some time yesterday on several forums about shut downs and I have to say that many who are shut down have many many cards. I do not have many cards at all nor do I plan on opening any more cards. And those who mention MS on those forums (which I assume = liquidating) also seem to be ones who have very little funds that they are trying to squeeze which will be an obvious shut down (someone who makes 50k a year doing gc purchasing and deposing of 100k a year)
So one preemptive task is Jeanie idea but maybe another is to close some cards??? I have a few cards (5+ year old) that I never use or used. None with Chase... Will this be a good or bad thing to do?
Finally, My original two ink cash cards are about 8 years old. I barely (maybe $200 a year) used them up until a year ago when I learned the gc method. Originally I had 15k cl on each and about 4 years ago I asked it to be reduced. I now only have 5k on each... I was thinking to ask to move 5k cl to each of the cards from my recent pref downgrade into cash which has 25k cl on it. Is that a smart thing or again poking the bear?
Oct 6, 18, 12:16 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: AA plt 2 mm, Marriott LTT, HH dia
Posts: 1,215
You can also get an Amazon account that pays 5% cash back. It's not UR points, but if you are a Prime member I believe it is unlimited.
Oct 6, 18, 1:08 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,919
Stop reading blogs.
The Ink Cash has a $25K 5x yearly limit, so $2k per month should be no problem at all. You have 6 go for it at a slow and steady pace.
Start now.
Doing $20K per month per card is asking for trouble with Chase.
If this won't work for you, Get an Amex Business Platinum 1.5 MR per $5k spent. Plus sign up bonus. No questions asked.
Stop reading the blogs!
The Ink Cash has a $25K 5x yearly limit, so $2k per month should be no problem at all. You have 6 go for it at a slow and steady pace.
Start now.
Doing $20K per month per card is asking for trouble with Chase.
If this won't work for you, Get an Amex Business Platinum 1.5 MR per $5k spent. Plus sign up bonus. No questions asked.
Stop reading the blogs!
Oct 7, 18, 11:05 am
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,243
You can obtain 5+2% discount at Lowe's without the hassle of buying giftcards:
https://creditcard.americanexpress.c...-rewards-card/
https://creditcard.americanexpress.c...-rewards-card/
Oct 7, 18, 4:31 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: AA plt 2 mm, Marriott LTT, HH dia
Posts: 1,215
So, in summary, alternatives to buying gift cards at Staples/Office Depot for this renovation are:
5% cash back with Amazon account (store account or Amazon Card)
Extra 2% at Home Depot from UR portal for either 3 or 3.5% depending on what card is used
5% discount + 2% Lowes points with the Lowes AMEX
There are other advantages to not using gift cards as well. For example, purchases can be returned for a credit on the credit card rather than for store credit or another gift card.
5% cash back with Amazon account (store account or Amazon Card)
Extra 2% at Home Depot from UR portal for either 3 or 3.5% depending on what card is used
5% discount + 2% Lowes points with the Lowes AMEX
There are other advantages to not using gift cards as well. For example, purchases can be returned for a credit on the credit card rather than for store credit or another gift card.
Oct 13, 18, 12:45 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 3,265
And let's not forget about the legal protections that come with using a credit card. With a $400k renovation, chances are the OP is going to be paying a wide range of suppliers and contractors. If there's a dispute over products and workmanship and you paid by gift card....well...your only option is a lawsuit. If you paid by credit card, you have the ability to dispute the charge and/or a lawsuit.
Oct 16, 18, 9:42 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,729
I am sorry... but I am not breaking any laws nor am I doing something that is against the terms of the card.
...
If they indeed shut you down over something like this and they say that it is because they don't like your usage then they are the one at fault as I did not break any rules.
...
If they indeed shut you down over something like this and they say that it is because they don't like your usage then they are the one at fault as I did not break any rules.
Oct 16, 18, 11:35 am
#26
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DTW
Programs: Alaska, Delta, Southwest
Posts: 1,628
Oct 16, 18, 1:11 pm
#27
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,729
Developing a reputation for dropping customers without warning or explanation among the population that would buy $20k/month of gift cards at office supply stores to maximize the points wouldn't bother Chase much. If you offered Chase a software package that would automatically cancel the credit card accounts of anyone who posted on this board, they'd jump at it.
Oct 17, 18, 9:16 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DTW
Programs: Alaska, Delta, Southwest
Posts: 1,628
Developing a reputation for dropping customers without warning or explanation among the population that would buy $20k/month of gift cards at office supply stores to maximize the points wouldn't bother Chase much. If you offered Chase a software package that would automatically cancel the credit card accounts of anyone who posted on this board, they'd jump at it.
Oct 17, 18, 12:09 pm
#29
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,729
True, and it's a tradeoff. Set the filters so that only people who max out their credit limits every month spending only at office supply stores, and then pay it off in full, get flagged as "customer we don't want," and you miss the person who also buys a Snickers bar once a month to avoid being 100% office supply. Set the filters so that anyone who spends >$1k/month at office supply stores gets flagged, lose a bunch of profitable customers who use the card to buy office supplies. There's clearly an optimal balance point. Where it is, I don't know.
