Freedom VISA or Chase Pay acceptance at Smith's (Kroger)
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30887653)
Grocery is reoccurring, but timely especially as Kroger tries to reduce Visa credit exposure (which is almost all of the Chase Freedom cards). I am still waiting to see if Kroger will expand its Chase Pay QR pilot for it to be a more interesting quarter.
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Originally Posted by Tanic
(Post 30896019)
The axe drops on April 3, 2019 when Smith's stops accepting Visa credit cards.
I was actually not planning to change how much I shop at Smiths due to the Visa acceptance decision, and just start to use a different card type there since not all of the cards I carry are Visa, but this promotion from Chase is going to really push me away from Smiths. |
Originally Posted by storewanderer
(Post 30896064)
And as someone in Smiths territory, Chase doing 5% back at grocery stores starting April 1 makes the decision to "shop elsewhere that still accepts Visa" that much easier.
I was actually not planning to change how much I shop at Smiths due to the Visa acceptance decision, and just start to use a different card type there since not all of the cards I carry are Visa, but this promotion from Chase is going to really push me away from Smiths. |
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30897179)
I tried to get Kroger to tell me which stores are supporting Chase Pay, and I could not get an answer. We have seen some pictures in the contactless thread of some self-checkout Kroger stores supporting the Chase Pay QR code at the self-checkout area only (we are not talking about the Samsung Pay version). If there are any Smith's that do support Chase Pay QR, theoretically, they would support Chase Visa Credit after the April cut-off date via that workaround because they would have a different negotiated discount rate, but there is just such little documentation out there. However, it also doesn't appear Chase or Kroger are willing to promote that conversation at the moment with just a few weeks to go before the Smith's change.
Maybe if Chase Pay works with debit cards, they could still take those after April 3? |
Originally Posted by storewanderer
(Post 30898019)
Maybe if Chase Pay works with debit cards, they could still take those after April 3?
Come to think of it, I wonder if them being "unable" to turn off PIN bypass/"credit" for Visa debit cards is playing into their decision too. (By law, they're supposed to be able to, but Visa did sue them when they tried the first time.) |
Originally Posted by storewanderer
(Post 30898019)
The Chase Pay Visa processes just like a regular Visa card through the Visa network. It processes as a Visa Credit Card through Visa's authorization network. So I do not think Chase Pay is a potential "work around" to use Visa Cards at Smiths after they cut it off.
Maybe if Chase Pay works with debit cards, they could still take those after April 3? I think we agree that Visa is not turning off anything for the Kroger situation. It is Kroger at some point in the transaction process that is denying the transaction with no hint known to Visa. In fact, we can also argue that Visa probably will still processes many of the debit transactions (although there are alternates, the flattened interchange rate doesn't make that very competitive). I am not privy to enough of the Chase and Visa relationship except from a few anecdotes mentioned in various disclosure documents and investor calls. You seem to imply that a Chase Visa credit charge is the same as other Visa credit charges. Well, it is possible it is processed the same way, but Kroger is not concerned about the processing, they don't like the discount rate assigned by Visa. I firmly believe that Chase can and does negotiate a different rate for certain merchants because it can also flatten/eliminate many of Visa's own network fees. This is really the main incentive Chase can offer merchants to link up with whatever programs they can offer. I believe Chase can also private network route and approve transactions, but it does seem that Chasenet might just be still an underlying Visa-ran infrastructure, which would make sense from many angles. I also still claim that Chase could get Kroger to accept only Chase-branded Visa credit cards without Visa forcing some honor all cards rule legal response. The best way to do that is through the distinctive QR code method (which I think does list different on those Kroger receipts where it is live). The real question here is why is Chase able to act differently than other Visa issuers, and I've addressed before that Visa faced a tough dilemma as its largest issuer in the US is very powerful. At the time the special deal was made, I think Chase was implying that it could start its own network or buy Discover (for the same purpose). Chase still talks about it occassionally, but seems all in with Visa at the moment (see CVS Visa tap card commercial). Visa could have chosen any other tap issuer for that cross promotion. Oh man, we are getting off topic, but Chase can get Kroger to be another grocery brand beyond Shop-Rite to be under the special arrangement. I still believe it could sidestep the Visa credit issue if Kroger agrees, but it would definitely be harder for Kroger to make an overall new deal with Visa which must be the main goal today. I also can't imagine Chase wants to get involved so openly in a showdown over acceptance with Visa. I would love to see it because it would force innovation. However, to your point, whether it is QR or the physical card, it shouldn't matter. That would cause some clear point of sale confusion no doubt, but Chase has to see that as an incredible acquisition play (maybe causing Kroger other problems with partners like US Bank). The Freedom Q2 seems like the perfect time to play the game. I just don't know if the Kroger and Chase team are willing to allow this at Foods Co and Smith's. Lastly, Kroger's gift card mall does accept Visa credit. One can buy Kroger branded gift cards to use at blocked Visa credit chains with minimal shipping fees. I do not know if Kroger gift card mall codes as groceries though. We have mentioned that one can also buy Kroger gift cards at other grocery chains (except Fred Meyer which does not code as grocery). Is this hassle worth it? Just depends on how useful Kroger grocery prices are to a given family. |
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30898556)
I believe Chase can also private network route and approve transactions, but it does seem that Chasenet might just be still an underlying Visa-ran infrastructure, which would make sense from many angles. I also still claim that Chase could get Kroger to accept only Chase-branded Visa credit cards without Visa forcing some honor all cards rule legal response. The best way to do that is through the distinctive QR code method (which I think does list different on those Kroger receipts where it is live). The real question here is why is Chase able to act differently than other Visa issuers, and I've addressed before that Visa faced a tough dilemma as its largest issuer in the US is very powerful. At the time the special deal was made, I think Chase was implying that it could start its own network or buy Discover (for the same purpose). Chase still talks about it occassionally, but seems all in with Visa at the moment (see CVS Visa tap card commercial). Visa could have chosen any other tap issuer for that cross promotion.
That said, Chase Pay acceptance at the rest of Kroger could be a test to see how much of a reduction in interchange costs they end up seeing. I don't think that will work out all that well, however, considering that usage is already pretty low (besides the people with Samsung phones who are just using Samsung Pay with it). |
I just realized Smith's is actually Fry's in the Phoenix area. Since I only use Visa except for meeting MSR on some Aadvantage Mastercards this will significantly shift my shopping habits... as long as they keep taking Visa debit for other activities I guess I'm ok though.
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Originally Posted by bigshooter
(Post 30901012)
I just realized Smith's is actually Fry's in the Phoenix area. Since I only use Visa except for meeting MSR on some Aadvantage Mastercards this will significantly shift my shopping habits... as long as they keep taking Visa debit for other activities I guess I'm ok though.
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Originally Posted by Tanic
(Post 30901089)
Frys will continue to accept Visa credit cards after April 2 for the foreseeable future, the four Smiths stores in AZ will not. Kroger is using Smiths division as a test.
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Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30898556)
I am not privy to enough of the Chase and Visa relationship except from a few anecdotes mentioned in various disclosure documents and investor calls. You seem to imply that a Chase Visa credit charge is the same as other Visa credit charges. Well, it is possible it is processed the same way, but Kroger is not concerned about the processing, they don't like the discount rate assigned by Visa. I firmly believe that Chase can and does negotiate a different rate for certain merchants because it can also flatten/eliminate many of Visa's own network fees.
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30898556)
I also still claim that Chase could get Kroger to accept only Chase-branded Visa credit cards without Visa forcing some honor all cards rule legal response. The best way to do that is through the distinctive QR code method (which I think does list different on those Kroger receipts where it is live). The real question here is why is Chase able to act differently than other Visa issuers, and I've addressed before that Visa faced a tough dilemma as its largest issuer in the US is very powerful.
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30898556)
Lastly, Kroger's gift card mall does accept Visa credit. One can buy Kroger branded gift cards to use at blocked Visa credit chains with minimal shipping fees. I do not know if Kroger gift card mall codes as groceries though. We have mentioned that one can also buy Kroger gift cards at other grocery chains (except Fred Meyer which does not code as grocery). Is this hassle worth it? Just depends on how useful Kroger grocery prices are to a given family.
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Originally Posted by bigshooter
(Post 30901012)
I just realized Smith's is actually Fry's in the Phoenix area. Since I only use Visa except for meeting MSR on some Aadvantage Mastercards this will significantly shift my shopping habits... as long as they keep taking Visa debit for other activities I guess I'm ok though.
So you can't use that Smith's site to find all Smith's locations easily, since it finds all brands within the Kroger family, I see no way to narrow that down. |
All of the Fry's grocery stores under the Kroger umbrella are now active to use the Chase Pay QR at checkout.
Slowly, but some progress. Great way to use the Freedom 5% UR supermarket quarter bonus. |
Originally Posted by rasheed
(Post 30976464)
All of the Fry's grocery stores under the Kroger umbrella are now active to use the Chase Pay QR at checkout.
Slowly, but some progress. Great way to use the Freedom 5% UR supermarket quarter bonus. |
Originally Posted by fliesdelta
(Post 30976496)
Is Fry's not accepting Visa cards that you have to use Chase Pay there?
I do believe if Kroger does increase its general Visa Credit block, it could still accept Chase Pay as a workaround, but I have to await a wider Chase Pay deployment at Kroger to test that idea. |
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