Chase World Wide Car Rental Coverage Loophole
Dec 19, 2018, 6:11 pm
#1
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Chase World Wide Car Rental Coverage Loophole
Chase Benefits Guidelines documents Car Rental Coverage fairly general so I requested from Chase a Car Rental Proof of Insurance letter.
I'm A Chase Saphire Reserve VISA card holder but Chase has told me ALL Chase Visa Card are primary coverage internationally and World Wide Coverage.
VISA Corporation Car Rental Coverage offers secondary coverage and excludes 4 countries(Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Jamaica, and Israel).
Chase claims it INCLUDES the excluded 4 countries that VISA Corporation does not cover.
Chase Proof of Insurance claimed it was World Wide Coverage until I question a statement in the letter:
"Primary coverage is primary where available".
Asked for explanation Chase representative stated that card holder "MAY" have to pay for insurance in Italy, Australia and Costa Rica and many other countries Chase does not list.
Chase Benefits Guideline document is vague about these details and the Proof of Insurance Letter is most likely worthless in at least three countries while Chase promotes World Wide Coverage.
Advised Chase that the statement negated World Wide Insurance coverage since at least 3 countries known to Chase "May' decline the Proof of Insurance Letter and demand charges to for insurance coverage.
Chase will Not release nor document the UNKNOwN countries who "MAY" ignore the Chase coverage while still promoted World Wide Coverage.
Thus I find Chase Proof of Insurance Letter inconsistent and poorly written assurance of coverage.
I'm A Chase Saphire Reserve VISA card holder but Chase has told me ALL Chase Visa Card are primary coverage internationally and World Wide Coverage.
VISA Corporation Car Rental Coverage offers secondary coverage and excludes 4 countries(Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Jamaica, and Israel).
Chase claims it INCLUDES the excluded 4 countries that VISA Corporation does not cover.
Chase Proof of Insurance claimed it was World Wide Coverage until I question a statement in the letter:
"Primary coverage is primary where available".
Asked for explanation Chase representative stated that card holder "MAY" have to pay for insurance in Italy, Australia and Costa Rica and many other countries Chase does not list.
Chase Benefits Guideline document is vague about these details and the Proof of Insurance Letter is most likely worthless in at least three countries while Chase promotes World Wide Coverage.
Advised Chase that the statement negated World Wide Insurance coverage since at least 3 countries known to Chase "May' decline the Proof of Insurance Letter and demand charges to for insurance coverage.
Chase will Not release nor document the UNKNOwN countries who "MAY" ignore the Chase coverage while still promoted World Wide Coverage.
Thus I find Chase Proof of Insurance Letter inconsistent and poorly written assurance of coverage.
Last edited by euromannn; Dec 19, 2018 at 8:03 pm
Dec 19, 2018, 11:58 pm
#2
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Dec 20, 2018, 12:14 am
#3
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SO many countries "MAY" decline Chase's coverage and demand you pay insurance coverage fees that Chase has NOT advised are reimbursable.
Last edited by euromannn; Dec 20, 2018 at 12:58 pm
Dec 20, 2018, 6:25 am
#4
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Chase promises coverage worldwide, "where available". The problem is that some jurisdictions disallow non-local coverage, making Chase's or anyone else's coverage void, and forcing you to buy local insurance. This is not of Chase's doing, it's the local politicians. If a village chief in Vanuatu decides that renters must buy local insurance if renting red cars on rainy days with a full moon, then that is the law there. And the chief is not required to even notify Chase of that peculiar law. If you are unlucky to want to rent there, you have to follow the chief's law. So Chase promises worldwide coverage, with the caveat of "where available" because they cannot possibly know every law or restriction of every jurisdiction. Is that so hard to understand?
Dec 20, 2018, 6:49 am
#5
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I'll give you a real-world example of primary coverage "where available", one that the Chase rep appears to have mentioned: Italy.
Italian law requires car rental firms to include collision and theft insurance. Should you run your Italian rental car into a pizzeria, the rental firm's collision insurance is primary as required by Italian law. Chase's insurance policy is secondary and would reimburse you for the excess.
You're still covered in Italy, but Chase can't say the coverage is primary because that would conflict with Italian law. Hence "primary coverage where available". I've never banged up a rental car in Italy, but there are plenty of reports here and elsewhere by people who have done so and have been reimbursed by Chase for the excess.
In contrast, here in Belgium collision insurance is standard but not actually required--so when I book a car I am able to waive it, so long as I'm willing to sign (usually at least twice) to that effect when I pick it up. If I run my rental car into a frituur, Chase's collision insurance is primary.
Italian law requires car rental firms to include collision and theft insurance. Should you run your Italian rental car into a pizzeria, the rental firm's collision insurance is primary as required by Italian law. Chase's insurance policy is secondary and would reimburse you for the excess.
You're still covered in Italy, but Chase can't say the coverage is primary because that would conflict with Italian law. Hence "primary coverage where available". I've never banged up a rental car in Italy, but there are plenty of reports here and elsewhere by people who have done so and have been reimbursed by Chase for the excess.
In contrast, here in Belgium collision insurance is standard but not actually required--so when I book a car I am able to waive it, so long as I'm willing to sign (usually at least twice) to that effect when I pick it up. If I run my rental car into a frituur, Chase's collision insurance is primary.
Dec 20, 2018, 9:30 am
#6
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I'll give you a real-world example of primary coverage "where available", one that the Chase rep appears to have mentioned: Italy.
Italian law requires car rental firms to include collision and theft insurance. Should you run your Italian rental car into a pizzeria, the rental firm's collision insurance is primary as required by Italian law. Chase's insurance policy is secondary and would reimburse you for the excess.
You're still covered in Italy, but Chase can't say the coverage is primary because that would conflict with Italian law. Hence "primary coverage where available". I've never banged up a rental car in Italy, but there are plenty of reports here and elsewhere by people who have done so and have been reimbursed by Chase for the excess.
In contrast, here in Belgium collision insurance is standard but not actually required--so when I book a car I am able to waive it, so long as I'm willing to sign (usually at least twice) to that effect when I pick it up. If I run my rental car into a frituur, Chase's collision insurance is primary.
Italian law requires car rental firms to include collision and theft insurance. Should you run your Italian rental car into a pizzeria, the rental firm's collision insurance is primary as required by Italian law. Chase's insurance policy is secondary and would reimburse you for the excess.
You're still covered in Italy, but Chase can't say the coverage is primary because that would conflict with Italian law. Hence "primary coverage where available". I've never banged up a rental car in Italy, but there are plenty of reports here and elsewhere by people who have done so and have been reimbursed by Chase for the excess.
In contrast, here in Belgium collision insurance is standard but not actually required--so when I book a car I am able to waive it, so long as I'm willing to sign (usually at least twice) to that effect when I pick it up. If I run my rental car into a frituur, Chase's collision insurance is primary.
In countries that may reject Chase coverage Chase agrees to pay the fees to buy insurance coverage.
Then primary is not critical since HCSe is reimbursing just the fees in Italy, Costa Rica, Australia and maybe FOCA countries.
However........few people clearly understand teh Chase World Wide Coverage primary limitations and where those limitations are located.
Last edited by euromannn; Dec 20, 2018 at 1:01 pm
Dec 20, 2018, 9:59 am
#7
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Chase promises coverage worldwide, "where available". The problem is that some jurisdictions disallow non-local coverage, making Chase's or anyone else's coverage void, and forcing you to buy local insurance. This is not of Chase's doing, it's the local politicians. If a village chief in Vanuatu decides that renters must buy local insurance if renting red cars on rainy days with a full moon, then that is the law there. And the chief is not required to even notify Chase of that peculiar law. If you are unlucky to want to rent there, you have to follow the chief's law. So Chase promises worldwide coverage, with the caveat of "where available" because they cannot possibly know every law or restriction of every jurisdiction. Is that so hard to understand?
Chase Card Member Rep's act confused and disoriented since Chase has not intention of ensuring insurance world wide when it can coverage extra costs to comply with local laws.
SImple
Dec 20, 2018, 9:49 pm
#8
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That would be a nice additional benefit indeed, but Chase (and I don't think anyone else) does not offer that benefit. If you find any card offering that benefit please let us know. I would sign up for that card in a heartbeat.
Dec 20, 2018, 10:04 pm
#9
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AMEX has identified other missing countries except for vehicles rented in Australia, Italy, New Zealand and any country on the Office of Foreign Assets Control ("OFAC") sanctioned country list.
Currently, sanctioned countries include the Balkans, Belarus, Burma, Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Iraq, Liberia, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, and Zimbabwe. The list of sanctioned countries is updated periodically and is available here.
So if you have Chase car rental coverage and you rent in Germany and have an accident in Italy are you covered? I think so.........but unsure of technicalities.
Chase needs to specifically IDENTIfy these countries instead of verbalizing "MAY" not be primary.
Seems Chase is poorly and incompetently managed in tracking down where the primary card is applicable where VISA and AMEX are more intelligent.
if I can GOOGLe the insurance countries not covered so can Chase.......unfortunately their legal department is not smart enough!
Chase does NOT want to clarify which of these primary coverage is excluded. Bad company!
Last edited by euromannn; Dec 20, 2018 at 10:15 pm
Dec 21, 2018, 3:50 am
#10
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Dec 21, 2018, 4:16 am
#11
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.... Chase added these 4 countries as primary coverage.....
Chase needs to specifically IDENTIfy these countries instead of verbalizing "MAY" not be primary.
Seems Chase is poorly and incompetently managed in tracking down where the primary card is applicable where VISA and AMEX are more intelligent.
Chase needs to specifically IDENTIfy these countries instead of verbalizing "MAY" not be primary.
Seems Chase is poorly and incompetently managed in tracking down where the primary card is applicable where VISA and AMEX are more intelligent.
Primary means only that the insurance will pay first, with no requirement to file a claim with another insurer. Most USA-issued personal automobile policies provide no coverage outside North America, and any credit card's coverage will be primary for USA residents renting internationally. In countries where CDW is a mandatory part of the rental contract, no credit card's coverage can be primary. The issue is not if Chase's coverage will be primary in these countries (It cannot be), but whether it will pay the excess (deductible) amount of a claim.
Last edited by mia; Dec 21, 2018 at 5:59 am
Dec 21, 2018, 6:43 am
#12
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Asking a vendor questions about what its documents mean is useless. They mean what they mean. At the end of each contract is a provision providing that no agent or employee has the authority to vary or interpret them. Thus, it is left to you and to your lawyers to figure it out.
The bottom line here is that no non-local vendor has any way of determining on any given day for any given transaction, whether it is primary. As with the Vanuatu example above, these things change constantly and are not limited to nations, but may include lesser jurisdictions and not all of them may post their rules anywhere Chase or you may find them.
But, this is a distinction without a meaning. In the end, if Chase is primary, you are covered. If Chase is secondary, you will be covered. If you must purchase "local" coverage, that is disclosed when you book and you may certainly call and confirm.
Suggesting that any insurer would take on unascertainable risk, e.g., paying for "local" primary coverage, is contrary to the entire concept of insurance. An actuary must be able to ascertain the risk in order for an underwriter to determine the cost. This might be an acceptable way to do business if you are working through an insurance broker to insure a ship's cargo. But, for a one-off car rental, neither you nor the insurer, nor the card issuer likely have the bandwidth or inclination to do it.
The bottom line here is that no non-local vendor has any way of determining on any given day for any given transaction, whether it is primary. As with the Vanuatu example above, these things change constantly and are not limited to nations, but may include lesser jurisdictions and not all of them may post their rules anywhere Chase or you may find them.
But, this is a distinction without a meaning. In the end, if Chase is primary, you are covered. If Chase is secondary, you will be covered. If you must purchase "local" coverage, that is disclosed when you book and you may certainly call and confirm.
Suggesting that any insurer would take on unascertainable risk, e.g., paying for "local" primary coverage, is contrary to the entire concept of insurance. An actuary must be able to ascertain the risk in order for an underwriter to determine the cost. This might be an acceptable way to do business if you are working through an insurance broker to insure a ship's cargo. But, for a one-off car rental, neither you nor the insurer, nor the card issuer likely have the bandwidth or inclination to do it.
Dec 21, 2018, 7:28 am
#13
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For whatever it's worth, Visa says "Coverage is not available in Jamaica, Ireland, or Israel". I have used the Chase coverage letter to rent in Ireland using a Chase VISA and all went well, the rental company (Sixt, in my case) accepted the Chase letter with no qualms. So, in my book, Chase coverage is superior to Visa. I agree that Visa has clearer language. Since you seem to value the importance of very specific language over actual extent of coverage, you should probably rent using a non-Chase Visa.
You seem to lack clarity is undertand legal terms
World Wide
Primary
And where applicable
A Card holder is NOT covered world wide and Chas has done an inferior job identifying something that other companies have aHIGHER level of intelligence to identify.
So if you don't care just stop replying I'm looking at this from a legal stand point and customer who doesn't want surprises at last minute of denied coverage,
Dec 21, 2018, 7:30 am
#14
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Asking a vendor questions about what its documents mean is useless. They mean what they mean. At the end of each contract is a provision providing that no agent or employee has the authority to vary or interpret them. Thus, it is left to you and to your lawyers to figure it out.
The bottom line here is that no non-local vendor has any way of determining on any given day for any given transaction, whether it is primary. As with the Vanuatu example above, these things change constantly and are not limited to nations, but may include lesser jurisdictions and not all of them may post their rules anywhere Chase or you may find them.
But, this is a distinction without a meaning. In the end, if Chase is primary, you are covered. If Chase is secondary, you will be covered. If you must purchase "local" coverage, that is disclosed when you book and you may certainly call and confirm.
Suggesting that any insurer would take on unascertainable risk, e.g., paying for "local" primary coverage, is contrary to the entire concept of insurance. An actuary must be able to ascertain the risk in order for an underwriter to determine the cost. This might be an acceptable way to do business if you are working through an insurance broker to insure a ship's cargo. But, for a one-off car rental, neither you nor the insurer, nor the card issuer likely have the bandwidth or inclination to do it.
The bottom line here is that no non-local vendor has any way of determining on any given day for any given transaction, whether it is primary. As with the Vanuatu example above, these things change constantly and are not limited to nations, but may include lesser jurisdictions and not all of them may post their rules anywhere Chase or you may find them.
But, this is a distinction without a meaning. In the end, if Chase is primary, you are covered. If Chase is secondary, you will be covered. If you must purchase "local" coverage, that is disclosed when you book and you may certainly call and confirm.
Suggesting that any insurer would take on unascertainable risk, e.g., paying for "local" primary coverage, is contrary to the entire concept of insurance. An actuary must be able to ascertain the risk in order for an underwriter to determine the cost. This might be an acceptable way to do business if you are working through an insurance broker to insure a ship's cargo. But, for a one-off car rental, neither you nor the insurer, nor the card issuer likely have the bandwidth or inclination to do it.
Owner of a document interpretation is critical since whether you care or not.
Start with the intent from the Bank and you ensure you know its meaning and if discrepancy you can escalate through the bank and other agencies for improvement.
Chase card holders should not have to GUESS where primary coverage is applicable when VISA & AMEX seem to already know on their end where secondary coverage is applicable.
Citi Bank's Proof of Insurance Letter from a 3rd party vendor Chubb was so worthless it lacked name on letter and contact information. It's a concern since if a document like proof of insurance is not written properly its not enforceable legally.
Last edited by euromannn; Dec 21, 2018 at 7:48 am
Dec 21, 2018, 8:08 pm
#15
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I feel like you'd want to opt into the rental company's coverage if you truly can't trust your card to cover you in the event of an issue. For everyone else, Chase seems to mostly do okay.