United’s Relationship With Chase Bank Under Review?
#61
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
For these reasons and the other ones discussed above, it's not at all surprising that CSR is a big problem for UA's relationship with Chase.
#62
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Since by definition we're talking about frequent travelers here, the effective annual fee of the CSR is really only $150, since you get an annual $300 travel credit. And they give you a Global Entry/TSA Pre fee credit every three years. And no foreign transaction fees on CSR (dunno about United branded Chase cards). For these reasons and the other ones discussed above, it's not at all surprising that CSR is a big problem for UA's relationship with Chase.
IMHO, United has a weak bargaining position. For if push comes to shove and UA goes to another bank (thus ending conversions of URs into MPs) I'd still stick with my CSR card rather than a United card (assuming the hypothetical new bank's UA card offers substantially similar benefits). Why? The convertibility of URs is the bomb—even if it loses UA as a partner.
Of course, I'd always prefer Chase and UA stay hitched, but I wouldn't mind some marriage counseling that results in UA's card (indeed, all of Chase's non-UR cards) escaping 5/24.
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,884
Since by definition we're talking about frequent travelers here, the effective annual fee of the CSR is really only $150, since you get an annual $300 travel credit. And they give you a Global Entry/TSA Pre fee credit every three years. And no foreign transaction fees on CSR (dunno about United branded Chase cards).
For these reasons and the other ones discussed above, it's not at all surprising that CSR is a big problem for UA's relationship with Chase.
For these reasons and the other ones discussed above, it's not at all surprising that CSR is a big problem for UA's relationship with Chase.
This!
IMHO, United has a weak bargaining position. For if push comes to shove and UA goes to another bank (thus ending conversions of URs into MPs) I'd still stick with my CSR card rather than a United card (assuming the hypothetical new bank's UA card offers substantially similar benefits). Why? The convertibility of URs is the bomb—even if it loses UA as a partner.
Of course, I'd always prefer Chase and UA stay hitched, but I wouldn't mind some marriage counseling that results in UA's card (indeed, all of Chase's non-UR cards) escaping 5/24.
IMHO, United has a weak bargaining position. For if push comes to shove and UA goes to another bank (thus ending conversions of URs into MPs) I'd still stick with my CSR card rather than a United card (assuming the hypothetical new bank's UA card offers substantially similar benefits). Why? The convertibility of URs is the bomb—even if it loses UA as a partner.
Of course, I'd always prefer Chase and UA stay hitched, but I wouldn't mind some marriage counseling that results in UA's card (indeed, all of Chase's non-UR cards) escaping 5/24.
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
I'm not trying to pin down exactly what United and Chase may do; I'm simply opining that United has genuine cause for concern that its cards' proliferation and use are undermined by...
- Chase's CSR card
- Chase's 5/24 rule
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
#65
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 156
Correct. United could move its cards from JPMorgan Chase & Co. to, say, Citigroup Inc. without any provision for the conversion of ThankYou Points into MileagePlus miles. Or, such a conversion arrangement could be established. It's up to the airline and bank involved.
I'm not trying to pin down exactly what United and Chase may do; I'm simply opining that United has genuine cause for concern that its cards' proliferation and use are undermined by...
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
I'm not trying to pin down exactly what United and Chase may do; I'm simply opining that United has genuine cause for concern that its cards' proliferation and use are undermined by...
- Chase's CSR card
- Chase's 5/24 rule
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
#67
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 600
The CSR annual fee is $450. That $300 "travel credit" everyone keeps harping about is still YOUR money which you have to spend in order to be eligible for said "credit."
#68
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 205
Now, are there reasons people would nevertheless choose to use United's cards despite the concerns I innumerate? Sure. Still, anything undermining its cards should be of concern to United. So it's not surprising talks are taking place.
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
#69
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
Fair point. The CSP may have fomented the erosion of United's cards, but the CSR was the coup de grâce. And although you didn't mention it, let me reiterate to the forum readers that Chase's 5/24 rule is more problematic for United than many care to acknowledge. Now, does that mean there will be any appreciable changes? No. The machinations could remain behind the scenes. And any changes we do see could be detrimental to us. But, regardless, I'm convinced United isn't going to keep things status quo.
#70
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 600
No I am not kidding. The CSR annual fee is $450 which you pay out of pocket annually as a card holder.
At the end of the day that $300 "travel credit" is your own money and not something the Chase gives to you as an extra bonus. Keep in mind that the $300 "travel credit" doesn't magically appear in your account which automatically applies whether or not you actually purchase any "travel" related services that qualify. Instead, Chase gives you a "refund" of up to $300 if you purchase said "travel" related services that qualify.
If you can't understand the difference between a "credit" and a "refund", I don't know what else to tell you.
At the end of the day that $300 "travel credit" is your own money and not something the Chase gives to you as an extra bonus. Keep in mind that the $300 "travel credit" doesn't magically appear in your account which automatically applies whether or not you actually purchase any "travel" related services that qualify. Instead, Chase gives you a "refund" of up to $300 if you purchase said "travel" related services that qualify.
If you can't understand the difference between a "credit" and a "refund", I don't know what else to tell you.
Last edited by Statman; Oct 31, 2017 at 10:10 am
#71
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
...but if you can't understand the difference between a "credit" and a "refund", I don't know what else to tell you.
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,884
Correct. United could move its cards from JPMorgan Chase & Co. to, say, Citigroup Inc. without any provision for the conversion of ThankYou Points into MileagePlus miles. Or, such a conversion arrangement could be established. It's up to the airline and bank involved.
I'm not trying to pin down exactly what United and Chase may do; I'm simply opining that United has genuine cause for concern that its cards' proliferation and use are undermined by...
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
I'm not trying to pin down exactly what United and Chase may do; I'm simply opining that United has genuine cause for concern that its cards' proliferation and use are undermined by...
- Chase's CSR card
- Chase's 5/24 rule
RNE, anecdotally presenting myself as Exhibit A, having an Explorer card I don't use to buy United tickets.
P.S. Marriott Corp. should be similarly concerned. I have the Marriott Rewards card but I don't use it to pay for stays.
As for my experience, at our household, I have one UA card (select) and wife has two (select and TB). Despite getting PQMs and 3x on Select purchases on UA.com, we still use the CSR for it - not specifically for the extra points, but because of the insurance the other cards don't come with. Why did that start? Didn't have anything to do with the cards but the kid - once we were traveling with an infant/toddler, the risk of needing insurance goes way up (It was the CSP before the CSR came out). We spend our minimum on our UA cards first, then switch to other cards as primary. We don't always need the waiver, but often don't know until close to the end of the year, so we mae sure we have it to fall back on if needed.
I think this just speaks to a larger underlying problem with airline credit cards since american is also saying their CC revenue isn't meeting their projections. There just isn't any value for the traditional 2x airline purchases/1x all else when compared to most program agnostic cards. sure 5/24 probably plays a role, but these programs have been devalued how many times but the mileage earning hasn't been adjust at all. total erosion of value on the CC's that no one seems to want to address since it probably impacts overall contract value.
The CSR, etc. are definitely a threat to all airline-branded cards, especially as the loyalty game is becoming more difficult with the changes. If UA (or other carriers) really wants to compete with that, they'll likely have to add card benefits - otherwise, people are less inclined to be loyal if its harder for them to get what they want with their loyalty. I actually think the TB card is a step in the right direction - its more unique. It's no fee, which means (aside from 5/24), there's no reason why one (with a decent credit profile) couldn't get it, and for me, as a UA loyalist, I earn $ back to use for tickets I'm buying multiple times a year anyway (and I still earn RDM/PQM/PQD). My wife has it...I'll get one at some point in the not to distant future. Not as flexible as cash back, and I suppose a PITA if we eventually switch carriers (which I dont' see happening based on the places we go and UA/partners much better way to get us there), but it works for us - and in a lot of ways better than actual mileage, at least, IMO.
#73
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,453
The CSR, etc. are definitely a threat to all airline-branded cards, especially as the loyalty game is becoming more difficult with the changes. If UA (or other carriers) really wants to compete with that, they'll likely have to add card benefits - otherwise, people are less inclined to be loyal if its harder for them to get what they want with their loyalty.
#74
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca., USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat; Bonvoy Titanium Lifetime Elite;Hyatt Globalist; HHonors Diamond; United Silver
Posts: 8,315
As long as they keep KE and SQ i'm happy
I'm a UA 1K and its getting harder and harder to find saver space (albeit better than AA/DL). However, anytime I search dates I want on KE they have first/business saver space. With SQ, I may need to adjust a day or two, but its there.
I'm a UA 1K and its getting harder and harder to find saver space (albeit better than AA/DL). However, anytime I search dates I want on KE they have first/business saver space. With SQ, I may need to adjust a day or two, but its there.
Thanks in advance!
#75
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Perhaps in year two you pay the $450 annual fee and then decide to take advantage of the $100 TSA pre-check credit, take advantage of Priority Pass lounges six times, use benefits of the Luxury Hotel Collection five times, utilize the roadside assistance feature twice, and transfer 100,000 earned points to Hyatt... Do you think Chase is reimbursing you your own money now, or are they paying for those travel benefits since you've used the other ones first?
You don't know for a fact that Chase is keeping your annual fee in a vault, only to give you $300 of it back just because you incurred travel fees a few months later. It's better to stick to facts than speculation.