Sapphire and Hurricane Harvey

Old Aug 31, 17, 12:15 pm
  #1  
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Sapphire and Hurricane Harvey

Houston folks need to be real careful with your Sapphire Card.

Chase has tightened the screws on us. First they have a policy that states that if you're 1 second over thirty days, they cut off your card. Then, they make you wait up to 2 business days to turn it back on after payment has been received.

In my case, I paid them twice in July, but unfortunately my second payment was a day too early for the August bill cycle. Then Harvey hit and the post office, internet, and cell phone service have been sporadic. And lets be clear, we have other problems going on right now. Banks have been closed. The post office isn't running.

I have over 300,000 dollars of historical spend on this card, rarely carry a balance, and have a credit limit multiples higher than my balance. My credit is excellent. I have a long history of paying them on time and paying off balances.

But because I went 1 second over 30 days since the last payment (or in my case, just paid a payment greater than the minimum balance but less than the total a couple of days too early). Chase's response...just shut off the card. This could have happened for a variety of reasons to anyone. People forget, every once in a while. You'd think there'd be some sort of grace period. I'm going to seriously question my continued use of this card, if that's how they operate. They have set their credit tolerances WAY too tight.

If you think you've paid your bill and it gets lost in the mail....card suspended. Hurricane or other natural disaster? card suspended. I paid them in the last part of July. It is still AUGUST

That card is marketed heavily to persons in the Houston area. People need to rely on that card during this emergency time.

After an hour of arguing, and offering to pay the balance right now (they originally said it would take several days to get it turned back on - even in the case of immediate payment), the third manager I talked to was able to turn the card back on so my other payments didn't go unpaid.

I'm really appalled with Sapphire right now. I seriously question the usefulness of a card that would get suspended for such a small time frame, especially in a natural disaster.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 1:11 pm
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You have to understand that the freezing of the card is computerized. It's not like there's some guy going through all of the accounts with a clock next to him salivating at the prospect of cutting off your charging ability when you go one second over.

While empathize with your situation in Houston, you should know that you need to make a payment to satisfy the Minimum Payment for a billing cycle. Even having auto-pay set up for the minimum amount each month only takes seconds of your time on the website. There is absolutely no downside to it either since the auto-pay won't trigger if you made another payment during that cycle that satisfies the minimum amount due.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 2:03 pm
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Originally Posted by MDJennings View Post
You have to understand that the freezing of the card is computerized. It's not like there's some guy going through all of the accounts with a clock next to him salivating at the prospect of cutting off your charging ability when you go one second over.

While empathize with your situation in Houston, you should know that you need to make a payment to satisfy the Minimum Payment for a billing cycle. Even having auto-pay set up for the minimum amount each month only takes seconds of your time on the website. There is absolutely no downside to it either since the auto-pay won't trigger if you made another payment during that cycle that satisfies the minimum amount due.
1. Yes, it's computerized. His complaint is about how the computer algorithm is set up for an affluent card like Sapphire.

2. Other banks don't usually cut off your account if you miss a minimum payment. You get hit with a late fee, etc.

3. He did make a payment. Didn't realize if over 30 days, then it doesn't count.

4. Banks are usually proactive during natural disasters by advertising removal of fees etc. Good PR for them. Chase could've done the same.

He has a legitimate gripe to expect better or at least same from CSR than an average credit card.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 2:12 pm
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Originally Posted by flyershmlyer View Post
1. Yes, it's computerized. His complaint is about how the computer algorithm is set up for an affluent card like Sapphire.

2. Other banks don't usually cut off your account if you miss a minimum payment. You get hit with a late fee, etc.

3. He did make a payment. Didn't realize if over 30 days, then it doesn't count.

4. Banks are usually proactive during natural disasters by advertising removal of fees etc. Good PR for them. Chase could've done the same.

He has a legitimate gripe to expect better or at least same from CSR than an average credit card.
1) Where in his post does he indicate that it's a CSR and not a CSP?

2) 30 days past the due date for the minimum payment usually gets your charging privileges suspended. Amex even did it to my Centurion once when I forgot that I changed bank acct numbers and was overseas for 2 months and neglected to check my email or have a phone with me that Amex knew the number to (my fault).

3) That's his fault and still doesn't negate what I said about setting up auto pay.

4) They won't waive automatically waive those fees for everybody in San Jose for example when there is a natural disaster occurring in Houston. Those Houston-based cardholders would have to use SM or call in to get those waived. It isn't an automated thing.

His post also indicates he made those two payments in July which is well before Harvey was even a Tropical Storm. Even if it was on the last day of July, that was still 23 days before the storm his Houston. The first, "sighting," of anything the system that would become Harvey only became known on August 13th when it was classified as a Tropical Wave. That's not an excuse.

EDIT: Let's also remember there is a 23-28 grace period before payment is due from when your statement is cut. So if he made that second payment BEFORE that statement was ever cut (and he was delinquent even 30 days after that grace period), that meant he had 53-58 days during which he could have sent in a payment but didn't.
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Last edited by MDJennings; Aug 31, 17 at 2:22 pm
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Old Aug 31, 17, 3:03 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by flyershmlyer View Post
...
4. Banks are usually proactive during natural disasters by advertising removal of fees etc. Good PR for them. Chase could've done the same.
.
As is Chase:

https://www.chase.com/digital/resour...asehome_3/hero

Here's how we're helping customers in FEMA-declared areas

Automatically waiving or refunding late fees for mortgage, credit card, business banking and auto loans and leases through September 10, 2017.

Automatically waiving or refunding overdraft, service and ATM fees on consumer and business checking and savings accounts, also through September 10.

Automatically starting a 90-day grace period on mortgage and home equity payments. We won’t charge fees or send negative information to the credit bureaus. Please call us as soon as your situation stabilizes. We'll work together to get you back on track.

Opening branches as quickly as possible so you can talk to bankers and get to your safe deposit box. We started Wednesday, but this is going to take time—we appreciate your patience.

Please check your Chase Mobile app® or the Branch Locator for locations now open near you.

Keeping our ATMs stocked with cash as much as possible.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 6:03 pm
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Originally Posted by TominLazybrook View Post

But because I went 1 second over 30 days since the last payment (or in my case, just paid a payment greater than the minimum balance but less than the total a couple of days too early).
Originally Posted by MDJennings View Post
2) 30 days past the due date for the minimum payment usually gets your charging privileges suspended...
you're not reading the post correctly.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 6:36 pm
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Originally Posted by MDJennings View Post
1) Where in his post does he indicate that it's a CSR and not a CSP?

2) 30 days past the due date for the minimum payment usually gets your charging privileges suspended. Amex even did it to my Centurion once when I forgot that I changed bank acct numbers and was overseas for 2 months and neglected to check my email or have a phone with me that Amex knew the number to (my fault).

3) That's his fault and still doesn't negate what I said about setting up auto pay.

4) They won't waive automatically waive those fees for everybody in San Jose for example when there is a natural disaster occurring in Houston. Those Houston-based cardholders would have to use SM or call in to get those waived. It isn't an automated thing.

His post also indicates he made those two payments in July which is well before Harvey was even a Tropical Storm. Even if it was on the last day of July, that was still 23 days before the storm his Houston. The first, "sighting," of anything the system that would become Harvey only became known on August 13th when it was classified as a Tropical Wave. That's not an excuse.

EDIT: Let's also remember there is a 23-28 grace period before payment is due from when your statement is cut. So if he made that second payment BEFORE that statement was ever cut (and he was delinquent even 30 days after that grace period), that meant he had 53-58 days during which he could have sent in a payment but didn't.
I paid them on July 22. My card was cut off yesterday. Figure out that math. I also paid off the entire balance on July 7. You are extremely misinformed.

Also, I've been unable to pay them because - gee whiz, there's been no mail service for a week, Chase Bank isn't open, the internet and cell phone data services are sporadic and out, BECAUSE I"M IN A CITY THAT HAS BEEN UNDER WATER FOR THE LAST WEEK.

its not my fault that I don't set up auto pay. That's not a requirement of Chase Sapphire. 9 out of 10 months, I pay the entire balance off. So I have no idea what the amount will be. And my minimum payment isn't known for a while. And if they want me to go online 5 or 6 times a month to ensure that they've been paid in a period of no MORE than 31 days but no LESS than 30, then its not really workable.

Last edited by TominLazybrook; Aug 31, 17 at 7:05 pm
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Old Aug 31, 17, 6:40 pm
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Then please explain how Sapphire cut me off.

I've almost never late.
I paid off the entire balance on July 7
I'm nowhere near my credit limit. And my credit is excellent.
I paid an additional 900 bucks to them on July 22
I was unable to pay them anything and haven't received mail in a week due to Harvey
I'm not prepaying on a premium card. Which is what the autodraft would be.
My home address is Houston. They probably sent me a letter. It will get there sometime next month, I suppose

There was no automatic anything, on my part. I had to spend two hours on the phone to get my card turned back on, even as I've offered to pay the entire balance off at once. Perhaps someone at Chase can give me the number to someone who can provide these benefits to Chase Sapphire members. Because it sure as hell ain't the number on the back of my credit card.

Last edited by TominLazybrook; Aug 31, 17 at 7:09 pm
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Old Aug 31, 17, 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by TominLazybrook View Post
... Perhaps someone at Chase can give me the number to someone who can provide these benefits to Chase Sapphire members. ....
If you’re concerned about making a Chase payment or have any questions about your Chase accounts, please call our special care line at 1-888-356-0023.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 8:07 pm
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I just called them. Basically you here's the deal. If you're a day early on the cycle, it doesn't count. You get 25 days of interest free treatment. Then a 5 or 6 day grace period. Then shut off city.

From a credit balance to suspended in less than 32 days.

By the way, they confirmed that they didn't automatically waive my late fees (as was promised in the Harvey PR). You have to call in to do it.

Basically, Chase Sapphire has the grace period of a pre-paid card for people with zero credit. With a big fat annual fee.

Last edited by TominLazybrook; Aug 31, 17 at 8:14 pm
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Old Aug 31, 17, 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by TominLazybrook View Post
... If you're a day early on the cycle, it doesn't count. You get 25 days of interest free treatment. Then a 5 or 6 day grace period. ...
Is there anything here that you find out of the ordinary? Any payment you made before your last statement was applied in the previous billing cycle, it doesn't relieve you of the responsibility to make the specified payment in the current cycle, if there was still a balance.

If I understand correctly that you are not paying the balance in full, each and every billing cycle, Sapphire is not really an ideal match. A card issued by a credit union would likely have a much lower interest rate, and you might get a more personal level of service (unless the card administration is completely outsourced.)
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Old Aug 31, 17, 8:45 pm
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Originally Posted by mia View Post
Is there anything here that you find out of the ordinary? Any payment you made before your last statement was applied in the previous billing cycle, it doesn't relieve you of the responsibility to make the specified payment in the current cycle, if there was still a balance.

If I understand correctly that you are not paying the balance in full, each and every billing cycle, Sapphire is not really an ideal match. A card issued by a credit union would likely have a much lower interest rate, and you might get a more personal level of service (unless the card administration is completely outsourced.)
9 months out of 10, I pay it all of at once. Last month, I was on 24 hour duty attending to the death of my brother, for whom I was the only living relative and the only care giver. I paid the bill a day early by accident. I had other things on my mind. It happens sometimes.

I thought I'd paid it. And then I've been busy with being trapped by flood waters for the last entire week.

People aren't absolutely perfect 100 percent of the time. The fact that you can't prepay (even inadvertently) is a real mess. If you go out of the country with janky internet security for a couple of weeks, you're hosed with Sapphire.

I need a card that handles international currencies. My credit union card doesn't allow me to use my card from them in multiple countries. Obviously, Chase is not working out for me, as I'm not 100 percent perfect (although I've never been late in 300,000 dollars of spend and pay on this card) As I've been with Chase Sapphire for a long time - its obvious its the first time that I've been hit with this..

And to pay an annual fee for a card with tighter credit tolerances than a vending machine pre-paid card is something I'm just not comfortable. And Chase doing this during Harvey is extra appalling.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 8:53 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by TominLazybrook View Post
... If you go out of the country with janky internet security for a couple of weeks, you're hosed with Sapphire.....
Not if you use the automatic payment option, as mentioned in the first reply.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 9:05 pm
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Originally Posted by mia View Post
Not if you use the automatic payment option, as mentioned in the first reply.
Which would mean that I would have to LOAN them money by pre-paying. How much is the automatic payment to be setup? Sometimes I charge a LOT of money on my card. And 90 percent of the time, it gets paid off. But sometimes, I'm out of the country and I don't want to expose my banking account to the Eastern European, Latin American internet, so yes, once or so a year, I don't pay the full balance off.

Perhaps what you are really saying is that if you don't automatically autopay the balance off every month, on the same day, from a banking account that always has enough money in it to pay whatever you have to charge on it every month, then Sapphire isn't for you.

Sometimes I don't get reimbursed on a ratable basis. I don't think I'm alone.

Look, maybe if one just uses it for domestic travel and one's reimbursement cycle matches with the payment cycle properly and its a rateable amount of purchases or one is willing to keep huge amounts of cash in one's checking accounts, then Sapphire works for you.

By the way, if you effectively have to pay it all off in full every month, you really don't have a CREDIT card, you have an expense card.

Last edited by TominLazybrook; Aug 31, 17 at 9:17 pm
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Old Aug 31, 17, 9:23 pm
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I don't understand why you consider the automatic payment to be pre-paying. It would be deducted from your checking account on the statement due date, which is 25 days after the statement closes (in the interest-free period).

The amount would be your minimum payment...a small amount compared to whatever you charge.
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