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Chase Dispute Resolution - Tips and Tales [Consolidated]

Chase Dispute Resolution - Tips and Tales [Consolidated]

Old Nov 1, 13, 1:58 pm
  #1  
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Chase Dispute Resolution - Tips and Tales [Consolidated]

Besides points and rewards, the other big attraction to CC spending is the security and protection against fraud and sketchy merchants. However due to a recent incident that occurred in Rome I discovered that I'm not as safe as I thought I was.

In a visit to one of the most popular touristy areas in Rome this past summer my friend and I decided to grab a quick bite and drink for lunch at one of those tourist trap restaurants and while I usually expect premium prices and lackluster food at these kind of places i wasn't expecting to get scammed. When our tab arrived I noticed that it was way higher than what I expected and a closer look at the tab showed that our server added multiple items on the tab that we hadn't ordered nor ever received. To the tune of about 50 euros more. I waved him down and explained the mistake to him and he told me to give him the credit card and he would fix it and charge me the correct amount. I normally would have told him to first bring the correct receipt before i hand over my CC to him but after a hot day walking around Rome for several hours I wasn't thinking straight and I naively handed over my Chase Sapphire. When he returned and gave me the slip to sign i noticed that he hadn't changed anything and he had swiped my card for the higher, incorrect amount. An argument ensued, a manager was called over, and hostility sparked. I gave them multiple chances to explain why they were charging me for items that we hadn't ordered but they chose to yell in Italian so I finally told them that If you don't fix my tab I will not sign the receipt and when the situation elevating to a level that gave me discomfort my female friend and I decided to leave (without signing the receipt).

I immediately called chase customer service to notify them of what had just transpired and to file a dispute but I was informed that since the charge has not posted on my account that I would need to call back once it had but I insisted that the CSR at least write notes on my account to show that I took a good faith effort to notify Chase as soon as possible. Fast forward, I filed the dispute a week later with the dispute department and gave them a detailed account of what we ordered that day. After they spent 2 months investigating the matter I received a call from the rep handling the dispute and the conversation did not go well. She asked if I have a receipt of what I ordered that day. I don't. She then tells me that since I cannot prove that what I ordered and received that they were going to rule in the favor of the merchant I tried to tell her that I never authorized the charges that they processed and did not even sign the slip but she told me that that is irrelevant, the fact that I admitted to being in the establishment and having a transaction with them proves that I was a willing party in the transaction therefore the signed authorization was not required. We argued for several minutes and I figured that she did not know what she was talking about and to have a manager contact me about the situation.

I immediately called Chase Executive Office and explained my situation to a rep to which he too thought that the Dispute Rep was incorrect in telling me that the burden of proof is my responsibility. He looked at my the notes and told me that a manager from the Dispute Team was going to give me a call back and he/she would be able to correct the mistakes of the Rep i spoke to. The next day I got a call from the manager however instead of calming my nerves, she in fact reiterated what the first Rep told me in that If I did not possess a receipt that reflects the correct charges that I would be responsible for the charge. My attempts to explain to her that the merchant was hostile and refused the correct the mistake fell on deaf ears. Frustrated and disheartened by the process I simply hung up and called the Executive Team again. After speaking to the Executive Team they credited me the over charged amount plus gave me 5000 UR points for my troubles even after I told them that my point (no pun intended) wasn't to get points out of this but that I now had a legitimate concern in thinking that a merchant can scam me and any other Chase Cardholder and we wouldn't have much recourse. I thought that refusing to sign the receipt would protect me but that wasn't the case.

Hypothetically, if that merchant decided to charge me an extra $5k rather than the $50 that they did, Chase Dispute team is saying that I would have been liable and responsible for the $5k overcharge. That is disturbing, especially when traveling internationally and not knowing the reputation of every business i visit.

I have asked the Executive Team to research the matter and see if this is in fact a policy that Chase has regarding disputes. I will update once I hear back but until than I will be using my Amex Plat whenever I am overseas.
xxpert is offline  
Old Nov 1, 13, 2:13 pm
  #2  
 
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You are not alone and thanks for posting your story. I had a similar experience with chase over an Italian Vacation purchase in 2010. We bought some goods in Italy and paid the merchant to ship them. We never received any of the items, and I submitted a claim wiith Chase. Ultimately, Chase sided with the merchant. We were forced to hire an Italian attorney and eventually got our money back, but no thanks to Chase.

these two cases illustrate: In practice, the consumer protection feature of Chase credit cards in Europe (Italy at least) is not robust.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 4:00 pm
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Thanks for posting that story. Seems like AmEx plat will be the way to go when I visit Europe next summer.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 7:47 pm
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Woah.
That's insane.

Though OP, you should have not called Chase.
I would have just walked out (Good Lord, Rome has a lot of these people, doesn't it?!) and then once the charge posted, I would've called and said that I don't recognize the charge.

AFAIK, once a customer does that, it's upon the MERCHANT, to prove that the charge is valid or not.Atleast, that's how AMEX does it.
Or maybe AMEX is just plain awesome.

Off Topic- Try Rome in the winter. 90% less tourists. 90% less scams. 100% better tours. and 10000% better photographs.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 8:07 pm
  #5  
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1. In the end Chase likely gave the credit as a CS gesture and not because OP was correct. Not that it matters to OP, but this means that the restaurant got to keep its money and is doing this 25-30x/day to naive tourists.

2. 99.9% of problems are avoided on the spot. Never, ever, never provide your CC until you have a correct receipt in front of you. Period.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 8:39 pm
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Had similar experience in Rome in 2012. The bill was much higher than expected and of course items never ordered appeared on the bill. I refused to pay for that and told them to correct the bill first. They refused. I told them to call the Police and we would sort this out when the Police arrives. They backed down and I paid with cash - I would not take ANY chance to let them get hold of my CC.

Rome is one of the worst European cities where it is full of low life scumbags. Paris, sadly, is getting that way too because of the influx of immigrants from some countries.

You really really cannot give your CC to anyone, including in US, when the amount is incorrect to start with.

Also you need to read the CC slip carefully before you sign it. Earlier this year we were in a local restaurant when the CC slip came back, instead of $17xx, it was $117xx. The print was really small, like ants, and you had to really look at it very carefully to catch it. I just felt the number looked funny and held it up against light source to read it - then found out the extra 1. I took the slip to the register and demanded the guy to reverse the authorization right there, as well as to give me the restaurant's receipt. When I later checked Chase online I saw both the $117xx and the $17xx as pending. I called Chase and informed the CSR what had happened and the CSR agreed to notate the account. After 2 days the $117xx fell off, presumably due to the reversal done on the spot.

Last edited by Happy; Nov 1, 13 at 8:50 pm
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Old Nov 1, 13, 9:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Happy View Post
Rome is one of the worst European cities where it is full of low life scumbags.
I love Rome dearly.
But sadly I have to agree with this.

My girlfriend and I went to a restaurant and we ordered a seafood dish and some pizza. The guy kept asking us something in Italian and we kept telling him that we don't understand what he's saying.
Finally I told him, that I did NOT want what he was trying to sell...all I wanted was what was in the menu for the same cost as it said there.

Well, he brought back a nice pizza, and the most extravagant looking seafood platter I have ever seen. It was enormous! I thought to myself that there's no way in hell this costs 20 euros.
So I call him back and ask him how much it is, and he says 180 Euros!!!!!!

We spent close to 20 minutes arguing there, and finally just walked out.
He followed us and began shouting out and everyone began staring...And that was that.
Definitely not a pleasant encounter.

Though, because it was winter, there was hardly anybody there. And since I hate other tourists that's just the way I liked it.
From what I'm told, the place is filled to the brim with scammers in the summer.

Errr...OP, coming back to the point, NEVER give your CC to anyone, especially not in cities renowned for pulling scams.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 9:16 pm
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I also love Rome. I was fortunate enough to have the chance to live there last year.

In March of this year, upon returning, I picked up some things for my mom from a few high-end fashion stores. Despite knowing the language and living there, I had no idea that goods cannot be returned for anything other than store credit.

I filed a dispute with Chase, not for purchase protection (which is invalid outside of the US), but for Prada's violation of Visa policies. Merchants must make return policies known at the point of sale. Chase gave me the run around for months and finally decided the dispute in the favor of Prada. I was very disappointed, particularly because I spend so much with Chase. Luckily, my mom was more than happy with my choice, but I was not happy with the way Chase handled this dispute.
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Old Nov 1, 13, 9:35 pm
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I wonder if Chase would have responded differently if the OP disputed the billing error via the procedure set forth by the Fair Credit Billing Act (FCBA).

The FCBA consider charges for goods and services you didn't accept or that weren't delivered as agreed as a billing error for which the issuer ( by extension, the merchant ) bears the burden of proof.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...credit-billing
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Old Nov 1, 13, 11:43 pm
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Originally Posted by jatink129 View Post
Woah.
That's insane.

Though OP, you should have not called Chase.
I would have just walked out (Good Lord, Rome has a lot of these people, doesn't it?!) and then once the charge posted, I would've called and said that I don't recognize the charge.

AFAIK, once a customer does that, it's upon the MERCHANT, to prove that the charge is valid or not.Atleast, that's how AMEX does it.
Or maybe AMEX is just plain awesome.

Off Topic- Try Rome in the winter. 90% less tourists. 90% less scams. 100% better tours. and 10000% better photographs.
You card doesn't walk out in the middle of the night, gets charged, and climb back in your wallet, only for you to not recognize those charges in the morning. If you claim that then you're saying your card was compromised, ie new account number, which other charges are you disputing, etc.

in retrospect, even if not the case, it might've been easier for OP to go down that route, than put himself through this nightmare. still amazed at chase for vehemently sticking to their point for a measly 50 euros.
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Old Nov 2, 13, 12:25 am
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Originally Posted by flyershmlyer View Post
You card doesn't walk out in the middle of the night, gets charged, and climb back in your wallet, only for you to not recognize those charges in the morning. If you claim that then you're saying your card was compromised, ie new account number, which other charges are you disputing, etc.
True.

But you know how often it's done without the credit card issuer asking you the questions that you're asking?
ALL the time!

Example?

eBay Chargeback scam.
Usually done with digital codes. But done with just about everything.
User purchases item. Asks for code via email.
Seller agrees, because he saves on shipping.
Two months later, received a chargeback.
Loses money.

How do you think the Buyer does the chargeback?
He doesn't go about explaining what he did or didn't do.
All he says is "I don't recognize this charge".

Similarly in this case, if OP would have said, "I don't know where that charge appeared from..." Chase wouldn't have asked him...How, when, who, etc.

Though,as you mentioned, that would lead to another problem, that the card would have to cancelled..and if (hope not) OP only had that card, then he'd be stuck.
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Old Nov 2, 13, 3:32 am
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Jeeze, this post made me really nervous about my upcoming trip to Paris and Rome in March 2014.

Do you guys have any suggestions for avoiding being scammed like that?
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Old Nov 2, 13, 5:50 am
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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I went to a small pizza shop near the Spanish Steps and what a scam! I'll keep this concise, basically gave us all menu's (and I always keep mine). So we order, eat the mediocre pizza then get the bill and it was 2x the menu amount. So we ask for clarity, this waiter brings out the menu with the inflated prices but aha! I have my original menu and so he was forced to honor the 50% less price for our meal. Advice: hold on to your menu, many places have two. One to get you to order and one they provide to verify their outrageous pricing. Especially true for Asian countries like Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia.
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Old Nov 2, 13, 8:30 am
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Originally Posted by whoknew89 View Post
Jeeze, this post made me really nervous about my upcoming trip to Paris and Rome in March 2014.

Do you guys have any suggestions for avoiding being scammed like that?
I've traveled in Europe quite a bit and never experienced the above fraud, so don't anticipate that this will definitely happen to you.

A couple recommendations:
- Bring cash. If they try some kind of scam like the OP had, offer to pay the legit amount in cash and that's it. Don't hand over the CC.

- Avoid hitting the tourist trap restaurants. They're the ones within a block or two of the biggest tourist attractions (Eiffel Tower, Spanish Steps, Coliseum, etc). The restaurants themselves usually suck, are overpriced, and - from the posts above - are more likely to be scammy. In Italy I've found that often my best dining experiences were places I stumbled into on a side street.

- If they do try to scam you, don't hesitate to 'offer' to go get the police involved. The scammers and the police are both well aware of what's going on. The scammer will almost never accept that offer and will quickly settle up for the correct amount.

Enjoy your trip. Getting scammed is still unlikely, although it does happen. Common sense is your friend.
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Old Nov 2, 13, 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by whoknew89 View Post
Jeeze, this post made me really nervous about my upcoming trip to Paris and Rome in March 2014.

Do you guys have any suggestions for avoiding being scammed like that?
You want to be vigilant but I wouldn't worry about it too much. We visited many places and had very pleasant experiences so this was the exception. Just watch out for scammers around the touristy spots asking you if you want them to take a picture of you, wanting to give you flowers, show you a magic trick etc...pretty much anything outside the norm. Frankly, on my last trip I encountered more of this type of stuff in Paris rather than Rome.
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