rrgg

I've read that refundable flights ticketed with UR become nonrefundable in the sense that you have to go through the travel agency to attempt a refund.

If I get a transatlantic changeable business fare, will I have to make changes through UR or whatever agency it is? Or can I go through the airline? I had an experience like this with US Bank flexpoints on a domestic DL ticket. DL could not touch the reservation.

edealinfo12345

Generally, if you book through an agent, the refund (if applicable) would have to be handled by the agent (there are few airlines that work outside this arrangement such as Southwest Airlines).

Note that many agents, including the Ultimate Rewards Web Site Booking Agent, in the finally booking page, insert a "this ticket is non-refundable" clause to every ticket sold by them, including tickets/fare basis that is refundable if booked directly with the airline (rather than the travel agent). The draconian clause inserted by the agent effectively ensures you have zero rights to a refund because you have acknowledged acceptance of the agent's own terms of sale, not that of the airline. Note that agents are allowed to make their terms more restrictive than that of the airline, and most on-line agents do!

paperwastage

why?

if it's an advertising issue (ticket shows refundable, but email/confirmation says nonrefundable), then talk to FTC about false advertising or unclear advertising (if page shows refundable and nonrefundable)

travel agencies aren't as regulated as airlines.... absent of breaking any (federal/...) regulation, they can choose to do whatever

you have a choice too - don't buy your tickets thru UR (or treat these rules as a UR devaluation)

Happy

The agency "owns" the booking, so any changes have to go thru the agency thru it you booked the ticket.

You have already learned that. UR or Connexion that UR uses, is no different from what you have learned in the DL ticket.

People, you have to realize that in order for you to get some discount, you must give up a lot of your right/benefits on the travel if booked directly with the provider.

It is up to you to decide whether the discount is worth the forfeited benefits.

rrgg

To clarify, I'm not interested in a refund.

I want the flexibility to change the date of travel. It sounds like I'm stuck dealing with a travel agent for this even for a business ticket.

Happy

Good word to use.

Very very very rarely an airline agent could "take" ownership on a point booking ticket. This happened for me long time ago but it is not something you could ever count on. Most of the time the airlines would direct you back to the 3rd party travel agency thru them you booked your tickets.

Again it boils down to how you value the flexibility / benefits guaranteed from booking directly with the providers versus the "savings" you gain booking with point currency that is NOT an award redemption.

At least this thread has brought the attention to some and learn the limitation of UR (or TYP, or Flexipoint, or MR) bookings.

mia

Not sure if it would be different it it were a paid booking through an agency, the airline's contract likely still requires the passenger to make changes through the agency, although they will sometimes make exceptions.

An AA booking that I made with Citi ThankYou points (Connexions) shows: Please contact your travel agent for airfare or trip changes. An AA booking that I made with American Express Membership Rewards (Orbitz) does not look any different than a direct aa.com booking, but I have not tried to change anything.

Happy

Was your AMEX booked ticket a point redemption or paid ticket?

A year ago a friend had a X'mas trip booked thru Expedia. His wife got really sick and had a high fever to 103 a day before travel. He called United. United told him to call Expedia. Expedia rep was really nice, helped him cancel the trip and put a note there that request was made to United to waive the ticket change fee. Told the friend then when he rebooked his trip he could just call UA directly and the ticket change fee should be waived. Friend was skeptical. When he rebooked the trip he called UA. When he was ready to give the story, the UA rep told him, No change fee. Your ticket had the note about fee waived due to sudden illness not fit to travel.

Apparently the Exp rep has done something? like transferred the "ownership" to UA, when he was taking care of the change fee waiver request? I have no clue.

Personally I have never found any of the "discount on airfare" offered by any of the in house reward program (TYP, UR, MR) works with our travel need. So I have never used it.

mia

American Express Pay with Points is setup so that the full cost of the ticket is charged to your own American Express card, then points are redeemed to offset the charge. The airline sees it as a revenue ticket, but it's still a ticket purchased through an agency. This is slightly different from Chase or Citi where the ticket is purchased with the agency's card.

The American Express Business Platinum Pay with Points can work out to $0.02+ per point, as discussed here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...demptions.html

edealinfo12345

An American Express Travel Supervisor confirmed to me that unlike Chase Ultimate Rewards, AMEX does not convert refundable tickets to non- refundable under a blanket agent clause. Actual refundability of the ticket depends on the airline's terms, not that of AMEX. (By the way, this was in contrast to her junior staff who first spoke to me and gave me the general speel that all tickets are non-refundable)

pWei

Of course. It would have made that portal useless to business travelers. I'm surprised Chase hasn't figured this out given they are going after Amex.

mia

Perhaps one of the ways that agencies such as Connexions Loyalty negotiate discounts with airlines is by agreeing to include terms which make their tickets more restrictive. This protects the airlines' direct booked and contracted commercial business.

moe8555

Are there any recent data points about this issue?
I'd like to book a refundable full-fare economy ticket (for upgrade purposes) through UR, and I verified both with the airline and in the fare rules that the ticket is indeed fully refundable with no fee up to 6 hours prior to departure.

The same ticket in the same fare bucket is on the UR portal, and that standard non-refundable statement appears on the final confirmation page. On the other hand, the terms very clearly state:

"Airline tickets are NON-REFUNDABLE and NON-CHANGEABLE unless permitted by the terms of the fare and are subject to airline rules and airline penalties up to the full amount of each ticket plus any fare difference charges."

I interpret that as meaning regardless of that non-refundable standard statement, this particular full-fare economy flight should be refundable.

Has someone gone through this yet?

edealinfo12345

If I recall correctly, Chase uses the following language:
1) First: "Airline tickets are NON-REFUNDABLE and NON-CHANGEABLE unless permitted by the terms of the fare and are subject to airline rules and airline penalties up to the full amount of each ticket plus any fare difference charges."

2) Second [When you actually book the ticket]
"Airline tickets are NON-REFUNDABLE and NON-CHANGEABLE"

I call this bait and switch because when looking through the booking, it gives you the impression initially that the ticket is refundable (see "first" above) and then later they introduce language (see "second" above) that removes the flexibility.

When I called on a Virgin Atlantic ticket, they said it is the airline that requires them (third party vendor) to make the ticket non-refundable, even though the fare code on the airline states that it is refundable. But the customer service rep. was probably giving his opinion.

I don't think someone very high up in Chase has actually researched and determined Chase's policy because there is an obvious conflict between "first" and "second" above and to the detriment of the customer, the "second" language comes on a booked ticket even though perhaps it was Chase's intent for it to be the "first"?

I don't think anyone has actually written a letter to Chase seeking clarification so that they could investigate and clarify their policy.

Happy

Here is another mess on ticket bought from UR

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28583512-post286.html

Intra-EU, business class ticket. At airport airline said it was coach, required checked bag fee. Poster filed a claim, he hasn't posted back yet.

As I said the UR travel booking is full of traps. I recently had a VERY POOR experience on hotel booking - the property flat out did not want to honor the booking by completely ignoring my email inquiries - most likely due to the property did not want to honor the "whole sale" rate any more.

Forgot from where I read about a guy booked a $100 room with the UR 1 to 1.5 so paid 7K. At the hotel he got a really crummy room and he asked to change. FD told him this was the $70 room. Yes, hotel told him the room was booked at $70. On his return he called UR and was told the room was booked with "whole sale" rate... I am not surprised by this after reading many said they got the "Priceline room" at check in.

The contract Chase signed with Connexion must be on worse terms than Citi's as I have rarely read complaints on TYP bookings.