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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Apr 19, 2018, 8:55 pm
  #1636  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 662
3x chase freedom unlimited. Kicking myself for signing up for this card for no good reason.

Last edited by briang191; Apr 19, 2018 at 9:18 pm
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 6:13 am
  #1637  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by neony77
Thanks for your response! I came to the same conclusion as well and just applied - got the same 30 days message that I received earlier this morning for CSR. But before I got that response it gave me an additional interactive response screen where it asked me if I wanted to add any additional income information to which I selected No. Called the automated line and it says 2 weeks. I am leaning towards not calling in and see what happens. It sounds like it is possibly again related to the CL based on the additional question I got after submission (and from my experience this morning). I think you mentioned the second card need not necessarily be approved the same day to double dip correct?
The important timing is that you got app #2 in shortly after app #1 is approved. Fingers crossed for you.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 8:49 am
  #1638  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Any info on how soon can I reapply for CSP after denial?
Applied 10 days ago (April 10th), got denied - because Chase pulled old Experian score from Mar 16.
My score jumped +150 since then - does it make sense to apply again today hoping they'll pull new updated inquiry?
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 9:17 am
  #1639  
formerly known as s2kdriver80
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, New York, USA (JFK <--> OTP)
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, SPG, Marriott Rewards, Amex MR, Chase UR
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Originally Posted by pallhedge
If it was Experian that you checked, make sure you also check Transunion and Equifax. Experian always lists the first of the month for account open dates when in fact it could be later.

If they all say May 1, then you should be good to go on May 3.
Thanks... yes, that May 1 date was with Experian. I just checked Equifax and Transunion and they both list the open date as May 18.

I leave for vacation on May 24. So I guess I can apply over the phone (or in branch) on May 19 and have it express shipped to my home?

Also, doesn't Chase tend to favor Experian (in which case I can apply on May 3)? Or do they have access to all 3 bureaus for the purposes of verifying 5/24 (in which case I guess I need to wait until May 19)? Thanks.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 2:27 pm
  #1640  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by pallhedge
The important timing is that you got app #2 in shortly after app #1 is approved. Fingers crossed for you.
Thanks! Automated line still says 2 weeks ~24 hours now since I got the #2 app in. Any harm in letting it sit (for the entire 2 weeks if needed) until they make a decision? Are there any DP's that makes it harder to get approval once you've had one of the sapphire cards approved for a few days even though you applied for both on the same day? I am thinking if it is just going to be a matter of time that'd give me extra few days to meet the minimum spend if the approval does indeed come through!
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 6:06 pm
  #1641  
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Originally Posted by s2kdriver80
Looking at my Experian credit report, I noticed that the 5th most recent credit card opening date was on May 1, 2016. I've read that you should wait a month after 2 years have passed (so after June 1, 2018) to apply for another Chase card so that you'll no longer be restricted by the 5/24 rule.

Problem is, the new Chase Marriott Rewards Premier card is coming out on May 3 and I leave for vacation at the end of May. Ideally, I would like to bring this card with me on vacation. If I wait the full month to apply, I will have already left for vacation.

Is the 1-month wait absolutely necessary (like were there no known cases where someone got approved right after the 2-year mark?), or is the 1-month wait more like for good measure? Is there a chance for approval, at say, 2 weeks after the 2-year mark, instead of a full month? Thanks.
Originally Posted by pallhedge
If it was Experian that you checked, make sure you also check Transunion and Equifax. Experian always lists the first of the month for account open dates when in fact it could be later.

If they all say May 1, then you should be good to go on May 3.
I disagree!

Experian is simply keeping track of the month, not the exact day.

So it depends on who Chase pulls.

If they pull EQ or TU for you, you may be safe with the exact day.

But if Chase pull EX for you, Chase could assume it could be May 31 (since they don't know what real day of the month from Experian, and they know the "1" is fake with Experian).

And that's why, if you're not absolutely sure that Chase won't pull EX, you're safest to assume you have to wait until the start of the next month to be safe.

And that's also why datapoints which don't mention which bureau Chase pulled are meaningless about this.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 6:11 pm
  #1642  
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Originally Posted by s2kdriver80
Thanks... yes, that May 1 date was with Experian. I just checked Equifax and Transunion and they both list the open date as May 18.

I leave for vacation on May 24. So I guess I can apply over the phone (or in branch) on May 19 and have it express shipped to my home?

Also, doesn't Chase tend to favor Experian (in which case I can apply on May 3)? Or do they have access to all 3 bureaus for the purposes of verifying 5/24 (in which case I guess I need to wait until May 19)? Thanks.
Chase pulls different bureaus for different people. It may be by state, it may be more fine tuned than that in some states. They're most likely to pull the same for you next time as they did last time, so check who they pulled last time you applied with Chase if you can.

But keep in mind, that "1" on Experian is a lie, and I'm sure Chase knows it (or doesn't even see it maybe the way they get the data from EX). So if they pull EX, Chase could assume anytime in May, up to May 31!

And that's why it's so important that you figure out who they pull for you if you're considering applying before June 1. (You can find pulls from the past 24 months at Experian's free website for EX, and at free Credit Karma for TU & EQ. But if your last Chase application was over 24 months ago, that may be harder to figure out if you haven't saved older credit reports.

If you can't find out about your own pulls, search a pulls database (they're out there on the web) and find who Chase pull for other people near your Long Island community.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 7:51 pm
  #1643  
formerly known as s2kdriver80
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, New York, USA (JFK <--> OTP)
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Posts: 317
Originally Posted by sdsearch
Chase pulls different bureaus for different people. It may be by state, it may be more fine tuned than that in some states. They're most likely to pull the same for you next time as they did last time, so check who they pulled last time you applied with Chase if you can.

But keep in mind, that "1" on Experian is a lie, and I'm sure Chase knows it (or doesn't even see it maybe the way they get the data from EX). So if they pull EX, Chase could assume anytime in May, up to May 31!

And that's why it's so important that you figure out who they pull for you if you're considering applying before June 1. (You can find pulls from the past 24 months at Experian's free website for EX, and at free Credit Karma for TU & EQ. But if your last Chase application was over 24 months ago, that may be harder to figure out if you haven't saved older credit reports.

If you can't find out about your own pulls, search a pulls database (they're out there on the web) and find who Chase pull for other people near your Long Island community.
Wow thanks for sharing your knowledge on how Experian marks the opening date. Pretty sure they pulled Experian last time, so I guess it means I'm SOL to have the new Marriott card in hand for the trip that starts on May 24, all because of a minor technicality.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 9:04 am
  #1644  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1
I got an offer to upgrade my Amex Hilton card, does this count towards the 5 cards in 24 months rule that Chase has?
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 9:11 am
  #1645  
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Originally Posted by s2kdriver80
Wow thanks for sharing your knowledge on how Experian marks the opening date. Pretty sure they pulled Experian last time, so I guess it means I'm SOL to have the new Marriott card in hand for the trip that starts on May 24, all because of a minor technicality.
Does it have to be the new Marriott card?

Do you already have the Marriott business card? If not, you could apply for the Marriott business card today (and in fact it may be discontinued soon, so why not today), since it's not subject to 5/24 (ie, it's one of the few cards that Chase doesn't check your 5/24 status when you apply). And you don't have to have a business to apply for it, just give the standard no-business answers (your name as the business name, your address as the business address, your phone as the business phone, sole proprietor, minimum years in business, no business income to date, and if they ask for expected monthly spend estimate what you'll spend the first few months based on the signup bonus requirements.

And the other great news: Applying for the Marriott business card now won't mess you your 5/24 status. Because business cards you've opened don't count toward 5/24.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 1:17 pm
  #1646  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SNA; LAX; KUL
Posts: 433
Originally Posted by neony77
Thanks for your response! I came to the same conclusion as well and just applied - got the same 30 days message that I received earlier this morning for CSR. But before I got that response it gave me an additional interactive response screen where it asked me if I wanted to add any additional income information to which I selected No. Called the automated line and it says 2 weeks. I am leaning towards not calling in and see what happens. It sounds like it is possibly again related to the CL based on the additional question I got after submission (and from my experience this morning). I think you mentioned the second card need not necessarily be approved the same day to double dip correct?
Here's my data point, under 5/24, I tried the same thing yesterday, applying 2 cards in a row. Went to 30 days waiting.

Called them today, was asked which card i wanted to prioritize A or B, told them A. Went on hold for 10mins (long wait, i'm guessing probably to consult a supervisor). In the end card A got approved but B got declined because of policy.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 4:33 pm
  #1647  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by sdsearch
I disagree!
Then you clearly didn't understand my post. Read what I actually wrote. I don't know where you get the notion that Chase assumes the account opening date is something other that what is listed on the credit report that they pull.

Last edited by pallhedge; Apr 21, 2018 at 4:40 pm
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 4:43 pm
  #1648  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by neony77
Thanks! Automated line still says 2 weeks ~24 hours now since I got the #2 app in. Any harm in letting it sit (for the entire 2 weeks if needed) until they make a decision? Are there any DP's that makes it harder to get approval once you've had one of the sapphire cards approved for a few days even though you applied for both on the same day? I am thinking if it is just going to be a matter of time that'd give me extra few days to meet the minimum spend if the approval does indeed come through!
I'm not sure what value there is in waiting, TBH.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 5:46 pm
  #1649  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by miuk
Here's my data point, under 5/24, I tried the same thing yesterday, applying 2 cards in a row. Went to 30 days waiting.

Called them today, was asked which card i wanted to prioritize A or B, told them A. Went on hold for 10mins (long wait, i'm guessing probably to consult a supervisor). In the end card A got approved but B got declined because of policy.
Just to be clear both your apps were pending with the 30 days message when you called? I followed steps that pallhedge listed earlier and only submitted the second app (CSP in my case) after my CSR (first app) was approved. I held off on calling on my pending CSP app and the card showed up in my online account this morning (~36 hours since submission), so I did get approved for both.

Originally Posted by pallhedge
I'm not sure what value there is in waiting, TBH.
See above, did get approved without calling - it worked out! Thanks again for the detailed steps you provided earlier. Hope I don't run into any issues getting awarded both bonuses after meeting the minimum spend.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 7:33 pm
  #1650  
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,932
Originally Posted by pallhedge
Then you clearly didn't understand my post. Read what I actually wrote. I don't know where you get the notion that Chase assumes the account opening date is something other that what is listed on the credit report that they pull.
Well, I don't know where you got the notion that just because "1" shows on Experian's buggy website that Chase sees the same thing when they get the report in a different (presumably machine-readable) format.

Go to www.annualcreditreport.com and request your Experian credit report there. There it shows different numbers for the "opened on" day of the month, not a consistent "1".

So IMHO since this proves that Experian's report may be shown differently depending on how it's obtained, how can you know that there are only two versions? How can you rule out the possibility that there might be a third version (in the presumably machine-readable format the Chase gets) which leaves off the day of the month completely? You don't get your credit report in the same machine-readable format that Chase does, do you?

Btw, I got a 2014 Experian report from annualcreditreport.com too (which I saved as a PDF printout), and I just compared it to the one I got today, and the one from 2014 only showed the month and the year for the "opened on" date. So such formats do exist out there, and how can you prove that Chase doesn't get it in that format, or put it into that format for its own internal use? (For example, what if Chase is using credit report processing software written 4 years ago when only the month and the year was shown for the "opened on" date. In that case, Chase itself could be throwing away the exact day of the month, couldn't they?)

Last edited by sdsearch; Apr 21, 2018 at 7:59 pm
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