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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

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This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Jan 3, 2018, 12:17 pm
  #1306  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 74
Applying to other cards while waiting for Chase decision

I'm currently at 4/24 and decided to apply for the Chase United card today with the intention of maxing out my 5/24 status and then focusing on non-Chase cards for awhile. I currently have the Chase Sapphire Reserve (approved last February) and Chase Ink Plus (approved 2 months ago) with Chase. I have not applied for any other cards in the past year.

I received the 30 day decision pending notice from Chase and then called in and received the automated message stating they would notify me by writing within 30 days. My credit score is over 800 with strong income so I have reason to believe the card will be approved.

My question is as follows. While waiting to hear the status, can I go ahead and apply to other cards? I'd like to take advantage of the 60K Jet Blue offer before it expires and also want to get the ball rolling on the Alaska card for other goals. Would applying for these cards tomorrow affect my Chase approval? In other words, does Chase based 5/24 on the date of the application or do they base it on a later date when it takes them time to make a decision?

Thanks!
used_wardrobe is offline  
Old Jan 3, 2018, 4:33 pm
  #1307  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 557
Originally Posted by cheaptom
As a datapoint, I was recently declined for an Ink Business Preferred. The letter said i had too many cards opened in the last 24 months. That is true, as I'm at about 10/24 due to Amex and Citi offers. The wiki offers some vague info about if Business cards count in the 5/24 rule. In my case anyway, they do.
Most Chase business cards require you to be under 5/24 to get them*, but they do not count for 5/24 purposes when you open other cards.

*barring some rare exceptions e.g. a BRM that knows how to work the system
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 1:28 am
  #1308  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by sdsearch
But was this for business credit limit reasons, or because they didn't want you to have two Ink cards?

If the latter, that wouldn't be the same situation as the OP you were replying to, because that person has an Ink but wants to apply for a Marriott Business card.
Yea, the Chase biz credit limits are odd. For example, many have $50k+ reported revenues but still get approved the for the minimum $5k. That's what my family member experienced for the CIP/CIC. But many at r/churning report far lower revenues, like <$10k, and end up with $10k+ limits off the bat.

In our case, underwriting basically said the CIP was only opened several months (just short of one year), so senior lending didn't feel comfortable approving another biz card in the CIC. Anyhow, we were planning on eventually cancelling or downgrading the CIP after the first year when AF hits, so closing it early to enable the CIC's approval worked out for us...

As for a second Ink, fortunately, no second card limitation on those, yet, like for the Sapphires
prech is offline  
Old Jan 4, 2018, 1:32 am
  #1309  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by used_wardrobe
I'm currently at 4/24 and decided to apply for the Chase United card today with the intention of maxing out my 5/24 status and then focusing on non-Chase cards for awhile. I currently have the Chase Sapphire Reserve (approved last February) and Chase Ink Plus (approved 2 months ago) with Chase. I have not applied for any other cards in the past year.

I received the 30 day decision pending notice from Chase and then called in and received the automated message stating they would notify me by writing within 30 days. My credit score is over 800 with strong income so I have reason to believe the card will be approved.

My question is as follows. While waiting to hear the status, can I go ahead and apply to other cards? I'd like to take advantage of the 60K Jet Blue offer before it expires and also want to get the ball rolling on the Alaska card for other goals. Would applying for these cards tomorrow affect my Chase approval? In other words, does Chase based 5/24 on the date of the application or do they base it on a later date when it takes them time to make a decision?

Thanks!
Go for it. 5/24 is based on the date of your Chase app, which initiated the CRA inquiry. They rarely will re-do a HP for one app. That HP for your United app will be good for 30 days internally, until it falls off their application system.

Not to mention new cards take a statement cycle or two to even start showing up on your CRA reports, so you'd be safe for that Jet Blue card app
prech is offline  
Old Jan 4, 2018, 10:42 am
  #1310  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 107
Marriott Chase Denied..

Is Marriott Chase strict too now? I was at 4 chase application in 2 years. My previous application was Jan 10th , 2017 (Sapphire Reserve), almost a year ago. So I called the reconsideration line, and it looks like they didn't like me opening too many credit cards in past 2 years (non-chase mostly). He quoted me 9 credit cards. I thought this was low, since i've churn 4-5 cards/every 6 months. Does anyone know what's a good number to be for chase in 2 years?

Edit: btw I have 3 personal chase cards atm, and 1 business card.
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Old Jan 4, 2018, 7:30 pm
  #1311  
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Programs: UA 2P, MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au, Avis PC
Posts: 5,453
Originally Posted by naps8906
Does anyone know what's a good number to be for chase in 2 years?
It's 5 personal cards maximum across ALL issuers in 2 years.
MDtR-Chicago is offline  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 1:11 am
  #1312  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago
It's 5 personal cards maximum across ALL issuers in 2 years.
So, would one be safe with 4 personal cards (2 Chase, 2 AX) and 1 business (Chase Marriott) within the last 24 months?
cesco.g is offline  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 8:53 am
  #1313  
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Posts: 5,453
Originally Posted by cesco.g
So, would one be safe with 4 personal cards (2 Chase, 2 AX) and 1 business (Chase Marriott) within the last 24 months?
Probably. May even be able to get accepted for two personal cards if applied on the same day.
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Old Jan 5, 2018, 9:33 am
  #1314  
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago
Probably. May even be able to get accepted for two personal cards if applied on the same day.
Very interesting, are there any more details on how to proceed for the 2 personal cards?
I was looking at the InkPlus business (80K URs).
cesco.g is offline  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 9:41 am
  #1315  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,940
Originally Posted by cesco.g
So, would one be safe with 4 personal cards (2 Chase, 2 AX) and 1 business (Chase Marriott) within the last 24 months?
The Chase business card will count on the 5/24, so you will need to wait until one of those rolls off.
Stgermainparis is online now  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 12:04 pm
  #1316  
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 2P, MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au, Avis PC
Posts: 5,453
Originally Posted by cesco.g
Very interesting, are there any more details on how to proceed for the 2 personal cards?
I was looking at the InkPlus business (80K URs).
I have not personally done it but there are many anecdotes here and that other forum of people doing this.

Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
The Chase business card will count on the 5/24, so you will need to wait until one of those rolls off.
In most people's experience, Chase business cards do not count. You have to be under 5/24 to get most of them (tho not the Marriott one) but they do not count toward 5/24.

Last edited by MDtR-Chicago; Jan 6, 2018 at 1:02 pm Reason: becoming less broad
MDtR-Chicago is offline  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 1:34 pm
  #1317  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago
In most people's experience, Chase business cards do not count. You have to be under 5/24 to get them but they do not count toward 5/24.
That's overbroad. The Marriott biz card, most obviously, is not subject to 5/24.
beltway is offline  
Old Jan 5, 2018, 2:26 pm
  #1318  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 60
I will be at 3/24 in Feb.I last had the CSP 11/2015, and got the bonus in 12/2015. I downgraded to the regular Sapphire card and cancelled that card 11/2017. So from my understanding I will be eligible for any bonus since it is more than 24 months past my last bonus and I do not currently hold any Sapphire cards. So with that being said my plan is to apply for the CSP(through my wife CSP referral) and a Freedom card. Is it possible to have my wife refer me, get the CSP (get the10K referral and 50K welcome bonus), then upgrade to the CSR(and get no welcome bonus)? I wasn't sure how long I would have to hold the CSP before upgrading, and if you are allowed to upgrade in the same year.
rhoman is offline  
Old Jan 6, 2018, 3:12 pm
  #1319  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
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Posts: 6,192
Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
The Chase business card will count on the 5/24, so you will need to wait until one of those rolls off.
This is incorrect.
Diplomatico is offline  
Old Jan 7, 2018, 6:57 am
  #1320  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: saint augustine, FL USA
Posts: 463
I just check my credit report (transunion) and found BOTH my hyatt cc and the added user card (wife) as 2 separate listing. Do you think they both will count against the 5/24 rule?
frankhi is offline  


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