Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
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This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

Old Nov 9, 2017, 9:19 pm
  #1231  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by Parachute07
Are there any recent DPs on more than 2 accounts in a single day?

My DW was 3/24 before today.

Today, she opened a Southwest Biz and Southwest Premier (both instant approval). That should put her at 4/24. Could she do another personal app today? Or does she have to wait 30 days? She'd love to fill that last slot and move on to other banks ASAP, but could wait a month if need be....any advice?
I managed to do 3 in one day for myself & wife. Unlikely that you will get instant approval, but worth trying and then call to recon/move credit if denied. If you apply today you can avoid an additional pull, so go for it, IMHO.
gotkwah is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2017, 9:38 pm
  #1232  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by gotkwah
I managed to do 3 in one day for myself & wife. Unlikely that you will get instant approval, but worth trying and then call to recon/move credit if denied. If you apply today you can avoid an additional pull, so go for it, IMHO.
Thanks for the reply. Gave it a shot. Pending. If approval doesn't come through, will call and offer to move limits. Thanks again for the response!
Parachute07 is offline  
Old Nov 10, 2017, 12:28 pm
  #1233  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 28
Any recent data on whether Ritz Carlton is still exempt from 5/24? Thanks!

Edit: Applied at 6/24, auto-approved so yes.

Last edited by Pkim621; Nov 10, 2017 at 1:07 pm
Pkim621 is offline  
Old Nov 11, 2017, 8:03 am
  #1234  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 22
Do CIP and Marriott Business count towards 5/24 calculation?
I currently have 5 cards, and an application for a Marriott Business, that hopefully will be approved.
So I got 2 credit cards in 2016, then got CSR in March, Amex SPG personal in April, Ink in September, and now hopefully Marriott Business in November.
That means, 5 or hopefully 6 new cards within 24 months. But I read, CIP and Marriott Business do not count, if in a few months I want to apply for a United personal, or Marriott personal. Is that accurate? Will I not be at 6/24, in Chase's eyes, but 4/24, because CIP and Marriott Business do not count towards it?
tele02 is offline  
Old Nov 11, 2017, 9:06 am
  #1235  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
Originally Posted by tele02
Do CIP and Marriott Business count towards 5/24 calculation?
I currently have 5 cards, and an application for a Marriott Business, that hopefully will be approved.
So I got 2 credit cards in 2016, then got CSR in March, Amex SPG personal in April, Ink in September, and now hopefully Marriott Business in November.
That means, 5 or hopefully 6 new cards within 24 months. But I read, CIP and Marriott Business do not count, if in a few months I want to apply for a United personal, or Marriott personal. Is that accurate? Will I not be at 6/24, in Chase's eyes, but 4/24, because CIP and Marriott Business do not count towards it?
You'll be 4/24.
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Diplomatico is offline  
Old Nov 11, 2017, 10:29 am
  #1236  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
You'll be 4/24.
Thank you for the response. That is great news!

As I apply for more and more credit cards with Chase, does it make sense to already lower my credit limit before applying for another card, to make the process go more smoothly? F.e. on my first Chase card, on the CSR, Chase gave me $17k as a credit line. $10k would also be enough. Not that when I apply for my next card, that then they say "Oh, we already extended so much credit to you..." Also with a $10k limit, utilization would be really low, as I nearly pay off all cards before statement date...
tele02 is offline  
Old Nov 11, 2017, 11:02 am
  #1237  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,192
Originally Posted by tele02
Thank you for the response. That is great news!

As I apply for more and more credit cards with Chase, does it make sense to already lower my credit limit before applying for another card, to make the process go more smoothly? F.e. on my first Chase card, on the CSR, Chase gave me $17k as a credit line. $10k would also be enough. Not that when I apply for my next card, that then they say "Oh, we already extended so much credit to you..." Also with a $10k limit, utilization would be really low, as I nearly pay off all cards before statement date...
You'll get mixed responses on this. Some do what you've described to try to increase their chance for "auto-approval".

Another way to view what you've described above is that if Chase refuses you, you can call and offer to move some of the credit limit from your CSR to whatever new card for which you've applied - a strategy that many people employ and one that tends to be effective.

Conversely, if you've proactively reduced your own credit limit prior to applying, you've removed that option (and there are some who believe it takes a while for that reduced credit limit to "work its way" through the system.)

In the end, it's really a personal choice.
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Diplomatico is offline  
Old Nov 12, 2017, 9:11 am
  #1238  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
You'll get mixed responses on this. Some do what you've described to try to increase their chance for "auto-approval".

Another way to view what you've described above is that if Chase refuses you, you can call and offer to move some of the credit limit from your CSR to whatever new card for which you've applied - a strategy that many people employ and one that tends to be effective.

Conversely, if you've proactively reduced your own credit limit prior to applying, you've removed that option (and there are some who believe it takes a while for that reduced credit limit to "work its way" through the system.)

In the end, it's really a personal choice.
I don't see why it's either or. Reduce your CL on most of your cards to the level you will realistically use in a billing period. On a sock drawered card that could be as little as $1K. On a CSR, for someone who travels a lot, it could be much higher. Then leave an extra @$5K on one card that can be used to move CL if necessary. That way you're covered whatever happens.
RobertHanson is offline  
Old Nov 13, 2017, 6:08 am
  #1239  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
I don't see why it's either or. Reduce your CL on most of your cards to the level you will realistically use in a billing period. On a sock drawered card that could be as little as $1K. On a CSR, for someone who travels a lot, it could be much higher. Then leave an extra @$5K on one card that can be used to move CL if necessary. That way you're covered whatever happens.
If you proactively lower your credit limits then get denied anyway, now you have lower limits for no good reason.
pallhedge is offline  
Old Nov 13, 2017, 4:37 pm
  #1240  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by pallhedge
If you proactively lower your credit limits then get denied anyway, now you have lower limits for no good reason.
I've yet to be denied for a Chase card that isn't covered by 5/24. I used to have to always get my Chase apps sent to a Supervisor for a secondary approval. Then one day the CSR explained the reason for that was "how much credit you already have with us", and I promptly lowered my TCCL. No need for a Sup approval ever since then.

And of course I said: "lower your CLs to the amount you will reasonably want to use". If like me Chase gives you a $17K CL on an IHG card that you rarely use since ROI on that spend is so low, why keep $1K on it? I keep the card just for the wonderful free night certificate, and only spend a few hundred $ a year just so Chase won't cancel it for non-use. Why would I want to risk that my app might get denied because I have $17K on a card I rarely use?
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Old Nov 13, 2017, 5:00 pm
  #1241  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MYR
Programs: spirit elite, MRgold Hilton Gold
Posts: 454
Just called the recon line for the Marriott Card. I was denied b/c I'm over 5/24, however, I am not, i'm under by a few days as of the application(duh) They tell me the only reason i was denied was having too many cards open. They tell me they can't see the dates that equifax puts out only the month. Nov '15. If i call back in December they may approve me as thats the only reason I was denied and i'd then fall beyond the 5/24 window and within the 30 reconsideration window.
Seems kinda asinine for me to wait two weeks to start spending money with them...
beachbrew is offline  
Old Nov 14, 2017, 6:04 am
  #1242  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by RobertHanson
Why would I want to risk that my app might get denied because I have $17K on a card I rarely use?
You view it as risk of being denied, I don't. I view it as risk I might have to make a phone call to be approved. No big deal to me.

I'm more than happy to make that call because it allows me to keep ridiculously high limits with Chase. Those high limits help me to maintain a high credit score, give me the flexibility to move credit around if I need to, and be approved for similar ridiculously high limits from other banks.

Neither of us are wrong. Like @Diplomatico wrote earlier, it's personal choice.
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pallhedge is offline  
Old Nov 16, 2017, 10:39 am
  #1243  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 51
I am not sure if this is the best place to post this but I will try anyway.

What are the chances of getting approved for this card and the CSR at the same time? I am planning on doing it at a local branch. I applied for the BOA MLB cards last year and ended up getting 4 and applied for the hyatt card in July 2017. Depending on how it counts, I am either 5/24 or 2/24 for the chase rule. We have a family business so I would try to push that being the reason I need the Ink card and I need the CSR card because of 2-3 planned international trips next year. What are my chances? I appreciate all the insight you are able to provide.
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Old Nov 18, 2017, 2:37 am
  #1244  
mia
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Originally Posted by vishalp0826
... Depending on how it counts,...
There shouldn't be any mystery. Look at any of your credit reports. Did Bank of America report four new accounts?
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mia is offline  
Old Nov 18, 2017, 7:17 am
  #1245  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 556
If you try to do this, remember the 1/30 rule - you have to apply for the business card first or your application for it will be declined.
NYCFlyer10001 is offline  

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