Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
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This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

Old Nov 18, 2017, 7:12 pm
  #1246  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by Diplomatico
You'll get mixed responses on this. Some do what you've described to try to increase their chance for "auto-approval". ... Conversely, if you've proactively reduced your own credit limit prior to applying, you've removed that option.
I did exactly that before applying for the CSR after reading the advice on here. Reduced credit line on another card from $20K to $10K hoping for auto-approval. That didnt work, but I was approved for the CSR after review. Didnt have to call in, but instead of using the $10K I had just freed up, they took $5K more from that card and $5K from another card. Thats not what I wanted, so I called in to request the credit line on the CSR to be increased by $10K. The request was immediately granted, but cost me another hard pull. I am now firmly of the opinion that once you have credit available, it is best to keep it (and as pallhedge pointed out, it also helps your utilization ratio).
Diplomatico and pallhedge like this.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 9:23 am
  #1247  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 60
Question for all the experts. I had a CSP in 11/2015, and got the bonus in 12/2015. I downgraded to the regular CS in 2016. I recently applied for the CSP, but was rejected since I had another CS product. But this is where the confusion starts. I dont want to close the account since I have a higher credit limit. I called the reconsideration line if I could convert the card to a Freedom card and wait a few months then re-apply. I was told I could get it but I wouldn't get the welcome bonus. From my understanding I could get the welcome bonus as long as it has been 24 months from last bonus and didn't have another sapphire product. Has anyone else had this situation? I wasn't sure if Chase introduced a lifetime restriction ala Amex, or the rep was just misinformed. Thanks.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 9:57 am
  #1248  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
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Originally Posted by rhoman
Question for all the experts. I had a CSP in 11/2015, and got the bonus in 12/2015. I downgraded to the regular CS in 2016. I recently applied for the CSP, but was rejected since I had another CS product. But this is where the confusion starts. I dont want to close the account since I have a higher credit limit. I called the reconsideration line if I could convert the card to a Freedom card and wait a few months then re-apply. I was told I could get it but I wouldn't get the welcome bonus. From my understanding I could get the welcome bonus as long as it has been 24 months from last bonus and didn't have another sapphire product. Has anyone else had this situation? I wasn't sure if Chase introduced a lifetime restriction ala Amex, or the rep was just misinformed. Thanks.
Yes, a friend of mine is in a similar situation. He called in to convert his CSP to Freedom Unlimited and then applied for the Sapphire Reserve. However, his application was rejected because he "had more than one Sapphire product". He inquired how that could be the case when he had done a product change from CSP to Freedom Unlimited. Both a rep on the reconsideration line and a branch employee told him that the system still sees that account as originally having been a Sapphire product and will subsequently decline applications for future Sapphire products. The branch employee told him to move his credit line from the CSP/Freedom Unlimited to another Chase account, close the Freedom Unlimited, and then reapply for the CSR and Freedom Unlimited, both as new accounts. As long as it has been more than 24 months since the bonus, you should get the signup bonus. It is not like AmEx where it's once per lifetime for a card product.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 10:20 am
  #1249  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 60
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I have a conundrum then. I have a small stash of 38K points, but I can just transfer those to my wife who has a CSP. But I don' have any other Chase credit cards. So the only way to transfer my credit limit would be to apply for another Chase card which would put me at the 5/24. I guess that is the best route and just wait for it to go under 5/24 again. Thanks!
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 10:34 am
  #1250  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
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Originally Posted by rhoman
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I have a conundrum then. I have a small stash of 38K points, but I can just transfer those to my wife who has a CSP. But I don' have any other Chase credit cards. So the only way to transfer my credit limit would be to apply for another Chase card which would put me at the 5/24. I guess that is the best route and just wait for it to go under 5/24 again. Thanks!
Yeah, I would wait until you're under 5/24. You can then apply for another Ultimate Rewards earning product (Freedom or Freedom Unlimited) and bank the points there, close the CSP, and then apply for the CSR.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 11:07 am
  #1251  
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Is it two years before you can get a bonus on CSP again?

I canceled CSP in September or October of 2016 when I got CSR.

I've maxed out on UR cards for now, having gotten the Ink Preferred in the last few months.

I'm at 5/24 but would go down to 5/24 in April.

So would I be eligible to get the CSP bonus in September or October? Actually, I originally got that bonus years ago, since I held the CSP card for several years until the CSR came along.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 4:09 pm
  #1252  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by wco81
Is it two years before you can get a bonus on CSP again?

I canceled CSP in September or October of 2016 when I got CSR.

I've maxed out on UR cards for now, having gotten the Ink Preferred in the last few months.

I'm at 5/24 but would go down to 5/24 in April.

So would I be eligible to get the CSP bonus in September or October? Actually, I originally got that bonus years ago, since I held the CSP card for several years until the CSR came along.
Neither September nor October; it's not when you had the card, it's when you got the bonus.

You can get the CSP again, with bonus, two years after you received your last Sapphire bonus of any kind. So you can get the CSP two years after you received the bonus for your CSR (probably Nov/Dec of 2018, depending upon how quickly you met the MSR).....oh, and you can only have one Sapphire product at a time so you'd have to downgrade your CSR to get that CSP.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 5:43 pm
  #1253  
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Hmm, do they give the CSP bonus if I try to downgrade from CSR to CSP?
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 6:06 pm
  #1254  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by wco81
Hmm, do they give the CSP bonus if I try to downgrade from CSR to CSP?
Negative. New apps only.
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 7:22 pm
  #1255  
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Hmm, so I have to cancel CSR first for how long before I can apply for CSP?
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Old Nov 19, 2017, 9:27 pm
  #1256  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Diplomatico
you can only have one Sapphire product at a time so you'd have to downgrade your CSR to get that CSP.
Based on my data point above, Chase still considers the card having been a Sapphire previously even after the product change.
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Old Nov 20, 2017, 7:59 am
  #1257  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Based on my data point above, Chase still considers the card having been a Sapphire previously even after the product change.
I suggest that you didn't wait long enough for the product change to update in the Chase system prior to attempting to apply. Or you got a CSR that was misinformed.
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Old Nov 20, 2017, 8:25 am
  #1258  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by Diplomatico
I suggest that you didn't wait long enough for the product change to update in the Chase system prior to attempting to apply. Or you got a CSR that was misinformed.
I was thinking this, but my friend said that a branch employee independently repeated the same explanation to him. It was also surprising to me as I would think the product change by definition would make it such that he no longer had a Sapphire card. I didn't quite buy the explanation of "once a Sapphire, always a Sapphire", even after a product change, so perhaps he does have to wait for it to propagate through the system.
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Old Nov 21, 2017, 8:29 am
  #1259  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7
Order of signing up for Chase cards?

Is there a preferred order to sign up for CSR, CIP, CSP (downgrade to CFU for the 1.5x on other purchases which is the bulk of our business spending)?? We own a small business and eventually want to have all three. I've read that you are supposed to sign up for the CIP first? I was hoping to sign up for CSR and CSP (double dip) on the same day so that we could have the CSR by next month to use for our vacation (3x travel and dining). What if we sign up for CSR and CSP (same day) first, wait 30 days, then sign up for CIP? Would we be more likely to be denied for CIP doing it this way?

I guess we can get CIP first and take with us on our vacation, we just won't get the 3x on dining. Is this ok to use internationally?

How long until we can downgrade CSP to CFU? The bulk of our 'other' spending will be in April/May.

What are your thoughts?
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Old Nov 21, 2017, 8:43 am
  #1260  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Posts: 1,142
Originally Posted by mac1986
Is there a preferred order to sign up for CSR, CIP, CSP (downgrade to CFU for the 1.5x on other purchases which is the bulk of our business spending)?? We own a small business and eventually want to have all three. I've read that you are supposed to sign up for the CIP first? I was hoping to sign up for CSR and CSP (double dip) on the same day so that we could have the CSR by next month to use for our vacation (3x travel and dining). What if we sign up for CSR and CSP (same day) first, wait 30 days, then sign up for CIP? Would we be more likely to be denied for CIP doing it this way?

I guess we can get CIP first and take with us on our vacation, we just won't get the 3x on dining. Is this ok to use internationally?

How long until we can downgrade CSP to CFU? The bulk of our 'other' spending will be in April/May.

What are your thoughts?
I can not speak to the business cards. I would go CSR, Freedom Unlimited, Freedom
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