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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Jan 13, 2017, 7:41 pm
  #106  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 308
Originally Posted by murphy
I got the Hyatt and IHG on the same day in October. They only pulled my credit once, on Experian.
Thanks for the DP. I'm going to give it a whirl.

Separately, looking for some advice.

My SO applied today for the Fairmount card. She got the 30 day notice. She called recon and they said they had an approval for $15K but needed her to move some credit lines around, which she happily agreed to do. The rep asked for the proverbial couple of minutes to finalize everything. He came back on the line and said that he had done everything he needed to do, but now the application was in the hands of an internal team which doesn't take phone calls and she would receive her final decision by mail in a couple of weeks?? Has this ever happened to anyone before? After he said basically the card was approved? And does this spell bad news for her?

To make matters worse, she was also going to apply for the Ritz card this evening. I'm guessing the Fairmount blow means she should not? Was hoping to get it on the same credit pull, but obviously don't want to jeopardize the existing application.

Any insight or advice would be much appreciated.
PumpkinSmasher is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 7:52 am
  #107  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Bloggers get paid per APPROVED credit card app. You earning the signup bonus does not affect this at all. So stating anything (such as a card being subjected to 5/24) that will prevent YOU from applying in the first place is not in their best interest as it reduces "conversions"--->money!

When you see a Southwest card appear in the main commercial blogs it means an affiliate link appeared for them as these cards have always had non affiliate public links around...

I could go on but time to refill my cup of coffee for....freeeee!
gpapadop is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 8:14 am
  #108  
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Originally Posted by RobertHanson
False Alarm I guess...

OMAAT, in the comments section, says yes it's subject to 5/24. I didn't see that anywhere in the T/C, isn't it usually there?
No. Chase does not mention its 5/24 anti-churning policy in T&Cs or landing pages. Citi does not mention it's 8/65 application timing policy in T&Cs or landing pages. Amex does not mention it's 4 or 5 credit card limit policy in T&Cs or landing pages. (And bloggers who post links are not necessarily consistent about mentioning all these things either. As you noted, it was a comment that pointed out 5/24, not the blog itself. So the blog was incomplete before someone added that comment!)

Each bank has policies churners need to be aware of that are never mentioned in T&Cs. If you want to err on the side of extreme caution, you can assume the worst in every link and not read the T&Cs nor any info on FT. But if you don't want to be stung, you have to have a good understanding of what unwritten (by the bank) policies are in effect on top of whatever you read in the T&Cs.

A place to start with Chase is the wiki atop this thread. Did you read it carefully? If you think it didn't explain this issue clearly enough, you can either edit it yourself or suggest an edit someone else can do.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 8:51 am
  #109  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 62
My wife applied for both Southwest cards a week or so ago at essentially the same time, on different computers. She was instantly approved for the Premier card, but got the 7-10 days for the Plus, and ultimately was denied. When I called recon, they said you couldn't get more than one card over a 30 day period. Everything I'm reading says 2 in 30 days. Did this change recently?

I did the same thing 2 years ago, and was approved instantly on both, so i'm guessing something changed. I'm over 5/24, so we decided to try to get the companion pass with her account, since she's well under.
browerjs is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 11:45 am
  #110  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 20
Chase closed all my accounts last May for doing MS on Chase Ink Business. About 4k a month. Since then I have laid low and not applied for any cards. What are the chances of me getting approved for a chase card? @0/24 now.
Wanted to applied for the CSR, but held myself back.
wildcat1313 is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 11:52 am
  #111  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
Originally Posted by wildcat1313
Chase closed all my accounts last May for doing MS on Chase Ink Business. About 4k a month. Since then I have laid low and not applied for any cards. What are the chances of me getting approved for a chase card? @0/24 now.
Wanted to applied for the CSR, but held myself back.
If I were you, I'd go for it--seems like there's not much downside. But apply (if you can) in a branch, where the 100K offer is still good.
beltway is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 1:09 pm
  #112  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 308
Originally Posted by browerjs
My wife applied for both Southwest cards a week or so ago at essentially the same time, on different computers. She was instantly approved for the Premier card, but got the 7-10 days for the Plus, and ultimately was denied. When I called recon, they said you couldn't get more than one card over a 30 day period. Everything I'm reading says 2 in 30 days. Did this change recently?

I did the same thing 2 years ago, and was approved instantly on both, so i'm guessing something changed. I'm over 5/24, so we decided to try to get the companion pass with her account, since she's well under.
If this is true, it must be YMMV. I just applied for the Fairmont and the Ritz Carlton card yesterday (based on a DP from October of 2016) and received instant approval for both.
PumpkinSmasher is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2017, 3:11 pm
  #113  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by beltway
If I were you, I'd go for it--seems like there's not much downside. But apply (if you can) in a branch, where the 100K offer is still good.
Thanks
wildcat1313 is offline  
Old Jan 15, 2017, 5:56 am
  #114  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Posts: 5,937
Originally Posted by murphy
I got the Hyatt and IHG on the same day in October. They only pulled my credit once, on Experian.
Any data on applying for a Chase personal and business on same day? Would like one credit pull not two.
Stgermainparis is offline  
Old Jan 15, 2017, 1:21 pm
  #115  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Posts: 756
Originally Posted by Stgermainparis
Any data on applying for a Chase personal and business on same day? Would like one credit pull not two.
Personal and business generally don't combine.
patrick.barnes is offline  
Old Jan 15, 2017, 7:43 pm
  #116  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,937
Originally Posted by patrick.barnes
Personal and business generally don't combine.
Well, bummer. I was hoping to do CSP and Marriott Biz. May do Hyatt instead, since it's personal card and seeminly doesn't count against the 5/24. That CSP will put me at 5/24.

How much time should I wait before then going for the Marriott Biz, which (again) doesn't seem to be under 5/24? I got an Ink Pref in mid Dec and CSR in October.
Stgermainparis is offline  
Old Jan 16, 2017, 1:48 pm
  #117  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14
To reconsideration or not

I am wondering my next steps. I am WAY over 5/24. Probably 20/24. I was approved for the IHG 3 weeks ago with a large credit line. Add this to my 3 other cards and I have over 50k. I stupidly applied for the Fairmont card before lowering my credit line. Should I call in to reconsideration? or send a SM and reduce my credit line? Or wait it out? I call the automated line and got the 2 week message. Thanks for your wisdom!
Tom Schneider is offline  
Old Jan 16, 2017, 2:20 pm
  #118  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,937
Originally Posted by Tom Schneider
I am wondering my next steps. I am WAY over 5/24. Probably 20/24. I was approved for the IHG 3 weeks ago with a large credit line. Add this to my 3 other cards and I have over 50k. I stupidly applied for the Fairmont card before lowering my credit line. Should I call in to reconsideration? or send a SM and reduce my credit line? Or wait it out? I call the automated line and got the 2 week message. Thanks for your wisdom!
I'd wait at least 3 days maybe a week to see if it shows up on your account online. If not, then I'd call and ask to reallocate some credit, if that's the problem.
Stgermainparis is offline  
Old Jan 17, 2017, 8:34 am
  #119  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 162
So is it possible to recon if you have exactly 5 cards in the last 24 months? Debating if I want to apply or not.
planetmans is offline  
Old Jan 17, 2017, 9:03 am
  #120  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Tom Schneider
I am wondering my next steps. I am WAY over 5/24. Probably 20/24. I was approved for the IHG 3 weeks ago with a large credit line. Add this to my 3 other cards and I have over 50k. I stupidly applied for the Fairmont card before lowering my credit line. Should I call in to reconsideration? or send a SM and reduce my credit line? Or wait it out? I call the automated line and got the 2 week message. Thanks for your wisdom!
No certain answer for this, but a number of folks in your situation have SMed to lower their CL, and then been approved. Did it help? No way to know, but fairly certain it didn't hurt.
RobertHanson is offline  


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