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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward

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Old Aug 13, 19, 12:50 am   -   Wikipost
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This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis:
Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
http://www.doctorofcredit.com/chase-...ail-need-know/
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
]https://www.doctorofcredit.com/has-c...-have-no-idea/
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
See the discussion at

Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Old Apr 28, 17, 11:03 am
  #631  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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I got approved for the ink business preferred 2 days ago. I was at 8/24. Went into my local branch to setup a business account and I was pre approved. Applied and approved.

I was also over 5/24 when the CSR came out and went in and I was pre approved and got it as well. Both times over 5/24
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Old Apr 28, 17, 11:36 am
  #632  
 
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Originally Posted by joxxie View Post
I was also over 5/24 when the CSR came out and went in and I was pre approved and got it as well. Both times over 5/24
Interesting. Anything else unique? Are you CPC or a JPM private client?

Having secured 5 Chase cards over the last year and 450k points, I thought 5/24 applied and was going to switch my focus. But if 5/24 is a fake limit for some reason, I might go ahead and try for the IHG, Marriot and Ritz cards.
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Old Apr 28, 17, 12:22 pm
  #633  
 
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Neither JPM card reports to credit bureaus.

So you were at 3/24...
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Old Apr 28, 17, 1:04 pm
  #634  
 
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Originally Posted by patrick.barnes View Post
Neither JPM card reports to credit bureaus.

So you were at 3/24...
Ah, I see. Well, maybe I was at 4/24 given my authorized user. I understand Chase goes off credit bureaus, but weird that they wouldn't check their own credit card department. But whatever, that's great and it solves my mystery. Thanks!
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Old Apr 28, 17, 4:04 pm
  #635  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmiller69 View Post
In my case I went under 5/24 and applied for CSR 2 days later. Instant approval.
My spouse did the same, except he didn't get instant approval. That only took about a day to come through though.
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Old Apr 28, 17, 7:35 pm
  #636  
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Originally Posted by darkhound View Post
Ah, I see. Well, maybe I was at 4/24 given my authorized user. I understand Chase goes off credit bureaus, but weird that they wouldn't check their own credit card department. But whatever, that's great and it solves my mystery. Thanks!
Several points you're missing:

1. Some people get approved at exactly 5/24 (while others get denied at exactly 5/24): While everyone gets rejected "for 5/24 reasons" (when not going the preapproved-at-branch loophole) at 6/24 or more, and no one gets rejected "for 5/24 reasons" at 4/24 or less, it's YMMV at exactly 5/24.

2. It's not clear whether Chase never counts its own business cards, or sometimes counts them, because of the above. Someone would have to be at exactly 6/24 if Chase counted the cards but 4/24 if Chase didn't to "prove" something. We have no such data points yet. Being at exactly 5/24 with Chase cards that don't show on your credit report included and at 3/24 without them included doesn't prove anything, because we don't know if Chase would approve or reject you at exactly 5/24.

3. AUs are sometimes counted and sometimes not counted. So if you didn't speak to someone who mentioned they were counting AUs, you can't know whether they counted an AU or not (if it wouldn't shift you from 4/24 or below to 6/24 or above).

Thus it's not really really clear IMHO if you were approved because Chase wanted to approve you at exactly 5/24 and did count those cards, or if you were approved because Chase didn't count those cards.

So IMHO there's an amount of mystery that still remains. And the mystery is important, in the sense it depends on whether you were approved for reason 1 or reason 2 (plus reason 3) above as to whether you can apply for any more cards that are "subject to" 5/24 at this time.

Since there's fuzziness "at the edges of" 5/24, it's usually hard to be sure exactly why you were approved, and also hard to be sure what will happen next time you apply, if you're "right on the edge" (depending on how Chase might evaluate 5/24 or depending on if you're at exactly 5/24).
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Old Apr 29, 17, 8:16 am
  #637  
 
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Originally Posted by darkhound View Post
But if 5/24 is a fake limit for some reason, I might go ahead and try for the IHG, Marriot and Ritz cards.
IHG, Marriott Business, Hyatt and BA cards do not have a 5/24 limit. DW and I were both approved for a Hyatt a couple of months ago despite being @24/24.
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Old Apr 29, 17, 8:55 am
  #638  
 
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Originally Posted by mareh View Post
My spouse did the same, except he didn't get instant approval. That only took about a day to come through though.
Congrats and good luck in the future. As we all know Chase is a different animal. The rules vary a little and that's why the Wiki helps. All we can say is what worked or didn't for us. Thanks
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Old Apr 29, 17, 6:10 pm
  #639  
 
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Any ideas if in-branch preapprovals are available for co-branded cards (that are applicable for 5/24), like the Marriott card?

I'm well over 5/24, but was pre-approved in-branch for the CSR and was approved after submitting an application with the banker.

I went into the branch today to ask about the Marriott card, and the banker told me that co-branded cards like that one aren't available for in-branch preapproval -- only Chase-branded cards like the CSR, CSP, etc.

Is this true?
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Old Apr 30, 17, 9:39 am
  #640  
 
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Originally Posted by SpeedRicer View Post
Any ideas if in-branch preapprovals are available for co-branded cards (that are applicable for 5/24), like the Marriott card?
People sometimes report pre-approval for United Explorer card.
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Old Apr 30, 17, 7:36 pm
  #641  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Easiest Chase Card to get with Limited Credit History?

My DW is at 1/24, and was just declined for the United card due to limited credit history. She's an AU all of my 20+ cards, but only has one card in her name.

What's the easiest card for her to get from Chase?

TIA.
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Old Apr 30, 17, 7:37 pm
  #642  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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I hear everyone gets approved for the Slate, but it's really a waste to get it so soon for no reason. I would just go for the freedom, shouldn't be hard to get.
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Old May 1, 17, 1:17 am
  #643  
 
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Originally Posted by maxmnx View Post
My DW is at 1/24, and was just declined for the United card due to limited credit history. She's an AU all of my 20+ cards, but only has one card in her name.

What's the easiest card for her to get from Chase?

TIA.
Wow, that's surprising that the decline was due to lack of history. Is this what the lending dept rep explicitly said? Especially seeing how there's 20+ cards of history to go by -- which I'm presuming is accumulated over multiple years.

I wonder if it's a 5/24 situation, where the representative didn't carefully look into her existing accounts, and therefore denied the application because the AU accounts counted toward the 5/24
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Old May 1, 17, 7:21 am
  #644  
 
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Originally Posted by prech View Post
Wow, that's surprising that the decline was due to lack of history. Is this what the lending dept rep explicitly said? Especially seeing how there's 20+ cards of history to go by -- which I'm presuming is accumulated over multiple years.

I wonder if it's a 5/24 situation, where the representative didn't carefully look into her existing accounts, and therefore denied the application because the AU accounts counted toward the 5/24
The denial letter said too many accounts. But then I called Reconsideration, and explained the AU issue.

The CSR did another review (took several minutes), and came back and said lack of history. I did say isn't that strange that first it is too many accounts and then too few. The CSR would not budge.

Welcome suggestions!
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Old May 1, 17, 7:50 am
  #645  
mia
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Originally Posted by maxmnx View Post
... only has one card in her name.
Originally Posted by maxmnx View Post
... strange that first it is too many accounts and then too few.
It doesn't seem strange at all, she only has one account. How old is that one account?
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